New Zealand Glorified bulb change or full testing? LED retro fit.

[1Justin]

Customer has about 50 old ~20W halogen downlights. All open-backed type, many broken GU5.3 connectors.

I can't replace 50 off with fangled all-in type LED lamps because:

1) She will have a fit at the price.

2) There would be too much light (in corridors etc) because ex. 20W halogens are too close together to justify these. If I don't fill all the holes, she then gets more cost by me jointing/replacing the cabling and filling the unused openings.

So I think it's a genuine case for a MR16/GU5.3 LED retro-fit. Looking for about 200 Lumens each, 3.5..4 Watt 12 Volt 2700k. Re-use existing (electronic) transformers, and would replace many broken GU5.3 12V connector cables on the SELV side.

But it's really a glorified bulb-change.

Would you:
A) Take account of the fact that ex. fittings are not fire rated? (- or just advise the customer)
B) Take account of wiring connectivity to all the transformers (ie poor enclosure in places, doubtful double insulation) (- or just advise)
C) Do an insulation resistance test? (ie disconnect old transformers from 1990's wiring, - fifty times)

 

[telectrix]

(B). ......

 

[kingeri]

A. Don't need to be fire rated unless there is separate living accom. above
B. Wouldn't leave the circuit with any substandard connections
C. Ha ha, by the time you've done that you may as well have charged her to rip the lot out!

 

[1Justin]

A) Living accom above - yes. - But I took some comfort from this: http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...F2jagwz39IAigp78w&sig2=BCe7m5rKBa-jRmqLvFqIKw


B) Hard to say from a sample I've done, there are so many of them, but certainly some exposed single insulations (you know the sort of thing, done badly into transformer clamps)
C) Indeed!

 

[kingeri]

It doesn't matter if there is living accom. above, only if it is a seperate dwelling (i.e. a flat).

 

[1Justin]

Thanks kingeri, got that, & agrees with the IET point.
rgds

 

[Richard Burns]

If you have open down lights and you are going to change most of the lamp holders to new ones, then this would likely require pulling out the transformer as well to get enough space to work, so I would take the transformer cables off instead of the lamp holder and replace them with a GU10 lamp holder, then you have no problems if any of the transformers do not work and need replacement after you have changed all the holders.
You are going to need to check them all so why not replace them?

 

[1Justin]

I could do this, I was working on the basis that 12v MR16/GU5.3 may ultimately be more reliable than GU10/240V with inbuilt drivers. Very good point though, and simplifying the whole thing has it's attractions. All the holes are 65mm and without adding further cost to cut them out, this also limits things.

 

[telectrix]

as i see it, either fix any faults and fit 12V LEDs, or go to GU10s and fill some holes.

 

[Richard Burns]

I think you have similar issues with reliability of the external transformers and they are less accessible than changing a lamp.

If you get modern good quality 230V LEDs then they should be as reliable as the 12V ones. The majority of faults I have had have been LED's actually failing, except on the cheap lamps which is where the circuit fails.

 

[brman]

I could do this, I was working on the basis that 12v MR16/GU5.3 may ultimately be more reliable than GU10/240V with inbuilt drivers. Very good point though, and simplifying the whole thing has it's attractions. All the holes are 65mm and without adding further cost to cut them out, this also limits things.

surely with 12V LEDs you have two drivers. The external transformer and the bulbs 12V to 3V (or whatever) driver. Can't help thinking GU10 has less to go wrong.....

 

[1Justin]

Yes, all true I agree. So I'm homing in now on some GU10 3.7W warm white LEDlite brand from TLC, and new cans to replace the 50-odd crappy things there right now. Maybe she'll be able to cope with the price on that.