Green Deal....Oh Dear!

[HotSpot]

This makes an interesting read....

Green Deal 'in tatters' as no-one registers - Telegraph

Is everyone holding off until DECC decide to suddenly change the goal-posts with 4 weeks notice and there'll be a massive rush/surge of interest.

 

[ktech]

Training companies seem to have been the big winners, although I've been contacted by one recently stuggling to get takers for 100% funded courses. Keeping well away from it all.

 

[Somecamel]

I told Greg he was killing the Green Army for the Green Deal when he killed the PV market, no market confidence and no market money

 

[Eco Deal]

people are waiting until 14th Jan as the cool off for siging is 14 days hence 28th kick off.

“Green Deal assessments are completed when they have been conducted in the property and the results are lodged on the Energy Performance Certificate register, through software developed specifically for occupancy assessments. While we understand a number of appointments for the in-property assessments have been made, no assessments have yet been lodged on the register.”


people will not lodge any as yet

 

[sedgy34]

I think the providers will have to advertise the scheme so the general public become aware of it
Forgot to mention the country is being swamped at the moment with External wall insulation from Eco funds the councils are all getting on board

 

[MCS Renewables]

We have twelve websites all feeding us Green Deal leads and recently got permission to put this sign on the front of a vacant shop in Bournemouth.

We get at least twelve leads a day, most for Green Deal for next year.

However we are managing to sell at least two systems a week of PV or thermal whilst having hundreds of local projects all tied up for next year.

You have to be in it to win it .....

 

[ktech]

I may be completely off the mark but the majority of the products you advertise, as i understand it, are not 100% funded so in the majority of cases an upfront cost would apply? Please correct me if i'm wrong. As an example I didn't think green deal would fund without upfront cost Solar PV, Heat Pumps, Solar Thermal, Windows or Doors not sure about the others. I thought all the ones I mentioned came with a amber light on the energy assessment?

 

[MCS Renewables]

Its all about the Golden Rule .

For instance take a look at this EPC https://www.epcregister.com/searchReport.html?RRN=0007-2818-7781-9222-3401

The solar PV is showing an install cost of between £9000 and £14000 for a 2.5kW system.

Most sensible sized companies can do a 4kW PV system for around £6000.

Therefore the orange tick becomes green.

Similar principle applies to all energy measures. Its about the install cost ratio to energy savings.

 

[SRE]

That's interesting and a good point but on a 45m2 bungalow where would you be able to put 4kwp? If you can't fit that on and it has to be maybe 2/2.5kwp so how does that pan out with those figures? Does RDSAP take into account location? I can't remember. Where does the £240 a year saving from a 2.5kwp system come from? Sorry for all the questions but it may help with the webchat with Barking later this morning

 

[MCS Renewables]

SAP is based on a Sheffield location.

I have no idea where the £240 figure was dreamed up from or why £9K to £14K for 2.5 kW PV system.... but I imagine it was a government clipboard carrier.

On that particular bungalow you could fit a South facing 2kW system for less than £4000 which under SAP would be ;-
8 x 250 x 0.8 x 1.073 x 1 = 1716 kWhrs So FIT would be at .16p £274.68 (16p for this example and excludes export bonus)
This systems feed in tariff finances not relevant to green deal.
This system should save 1716 hours at 0.13p import so £223 a year.

£4000 between £223 is 17 years so under the solar PV repayment time for green deal and therefore a big green tick

Most of our customers are 30% ahead of the SAP calculation but that maybe because of our South coast location.

This customer is already signed up so go find your own !!

 

[SRE]

Really interesting to see a real example of how it will work, although I doubt they will use 100% of what they generate but I guess if they can use half and the Fit pays for the funding, then apart from the potential inverter replacement, it's just about covered. In the North we've just about hit SAP this year because of the poor summer, but it does prove that it can be done. Out of interest how much more does the customer end up paying for the solar system and where does the cost of the admin, survey etc come into the funding equation?

Just used the loan repayment calculator on the Money Guardian website - came up with this, does this sound right??

mt# Balance Interest Principal Payment
1 4,200.00 24.50 8.06 32.56
2 4,191.93 24.45 8.11 32.56
3 4,183.83 24.41 8.16 32.56
4 4,175.67 24.36 8.19 32.56
5 4,167.47 24.31 8.25 32.56
6 4,159.21 24.26 8.30 32.56
7 4,150.91 24.21 8.35 32.56
8 4,142.56 24.16 8.40 32.56
9 4,134.17 24.12 8.44 32.56

236 160.00 0.93 31.63 32.56
237 128.37 0.75 31.81 32.56
238 96.56 0.56 32.00 32.56
239 64.56 0.38 32.19 32.56
240 32.36 0.19 32.36 32.56

Total Interest paid - £3,615.01
20 year loan @ 7%

 

[ktech]

Interesting - I just received an email from one of the DEA's we have used in the past explaining he is now a green deal assessor. He has given details of how the green deal works with solar pv and said:

'Solar PV is very interesting because the Green Deal will NOT pay for installation of PV panels at present prices because the electricity savings do not add up to the install price over the loan period (because Green Deal does not take into account the FiT) however it can PART FUND the PV installation'.

'For example if you were to charge a client £6000 for a PV system. Green Deal might fund £4000 of that so the customer just has to find £2000 UP FRONT then pay the rest off via the Green Deal but whilst still benefiting from the FiT payments.'

This is how I thought Green Deal would work with most renewable technologies and they would not be 100% funded.

 

[TedM]

That's right. The GD can part-fund any eligible installation up to the Golden Rule level.

 

[Somecamel]

Mmm, this is getting interesting now...

 

[Eco Deal]

MCS I have looked into getting solar pv under the green deal .

First of all the FITS is NOT included in the GREEN DEAL

so if the example system you gave produced 1716 kwh

so you have to go off fuel bill savings 1716 / 2 = 858 kwh per year

858 x 15p (top side per kilo watt paid)

£128.70 SAVED PER YEAR so the green deal loan repayment would have to be lower the £128.70 per year

so if you speard that cost over 25 years excluding the 7% intrest the price of the 2 kwp would be

£3,192.50 saving the client £1.00 over 25 years forgive me if I am wrong it looks like you included fits in your calculations ??????????