Halogen Maddness!!

[Billybalata]

Hi i posted once before with a problem with my house alarm which i was able to solve with some advice thanks guy

My new problem is this

The house i have bought has 50w halogen spots all over the up stairs put in by the first owner.


Sadly the next owner put a loft floor in that covers several of these spots(groan)

Now the bedroom spots have failed causing the whole house to trip when switched on at the wall and one of the 4 of them is well hidden under the loft floor and the units can only be removed from above.

Now although i hold a full city and guilds in electro and electromechanical engineering i am a bit rusty and not shy to call a qualified sparky in on this one.

Question is it likely that one of the holder units has gone short or is it more likely to be a problem common to all 4 units.

I really need to know if i will have to rip part of the loft floor up before i call a sparky in.

If its likely to be just one of the units i could buy a new one and swap round between the 3 i have access to and hope to get lucky.

Any advice gratefully received

Cheers Bill

 

[Billybalata]

Sorry i forgot to mention they are all gu10 lamps and none of them have blown.

 

[ifindoubtdont]

Billy, it's quite common for the fuse to trip when a GU10 goes. I think it unlikely that the holders were fitted from the loft, they should just pull out of the ceiling on spring clips. Changing the lamp can sometimes be a pain but it doesn't need a sparky. With holder out of ceiling push lamp towards holder and twist anticlockwise, similar action to bayonet fitting. If you can't grip lamp firmly enough wrap elastic bands around your fingers and try again. Steve.

 

[Billybalata]

Hi ifindoubtdont..............i tested all 4 lamps and they are ok................i will give your advice on removal ago but they seem to be fixed in from the top with circlips........ get the feeling these were not fitted by a pro..............its not just the upstairs light circuit that trips but the whole house......do you think its probably one of the 4 lamp holders that has failed?

cheers for your prompt reply Bill

 

[ifindoubtdont]

Billy, they can be a bit tricky to get out of the ceiling sometimes but when you get your fingers under the edge you will feel the spring start to give. How have you tested the lamps. Is it the RCD that has tripped. When reset does it still trip when using this set of lights if so you might need a sparky in with proper test equipment. If you post your home town someone on here might be nearby to help. Steve.

 

[Billybalata]

Sorry i forgot to say...when this first happened i thought right reset the breakers and see what lamp has failed............but as soon as i flick the bedroom light switch the whole board trips again?...........even with all 4 lamps removed............i tested the lamps by putting them in other holders....there are almost 20 upstairs !!

 

[Billybalata]

Thanks for the advice up to now.........i am off to work now so please dont think i am rubbering any other replys..............i will answer tomorow

Cheers Bill

 

[ifindoubtdont]

You say the whole board trips, eg:- all of the breakers. Or just the RCD or main breaker. Another thought, have you been doing any other diy like hanging pictures or putting shelves up, it may point us in the right direction.

 

[Billybalata]

No diy..............but its been a few weeks since this happened.........i think it was just the main breaker...........but i will rewire it tomorrow and post exactly what is happening...........i have removed one of the holders as the wife and i keep forgetting the consequences of putting the bedroom light switch on lol

Thanks for the advice up to now good night

 

[Guitarist]

There's a good chance that the heat has melted a mains cable, shorting line to cpc. Unlikely to be neutral, as it only trips the RCD when you switch the lights on. It could even be a nail or screw through a cable which has now manifested itself. Either way, it would be a good idea to get a good sparky to advise you on this setup, as there could be fire potential with covered halogens.

 

[Marvo]

I'd also go with the damaged wiring/cable theory, sounds like you'll need to expose the cabling in the loft to find the problem. There's a good chance the fault will be visible once you exposed the cables but if it's not you can either rewire the lot which shouldn't take long or you'll need a multimeter and possibly a mega tester to find the fault.

 

[telectrix]

best thin g is to get a sparks in to find the problem, fix it, don and dusted safely. your location posted would likely find a member close to you.

 

[Billybalata]

Just finished my night shift..........so nice to see so many help full posts as i got a bit of stick over my alarm problem(skinflint get a sparky in!!) which turned out just to be a flat battery just as i suspected after being switched off after a year as my cat kept setting off the censors.

All the wiring of these lamps(over 20) which run through my loft looks pretty poor compared to the standards i was taught in the RAF so i think i will call a sparky in...........but i will isolated each lamp holder in turn first just to see..............but yes i strongly suspect a shorted cable.........thanks again guys.....will post again after my attempts to isolate each lamp holder.

I have done dozens of dIY electrical jobs and have never ever botched even one...........but thats because i know my limits and have always called in a pro when i have realized i am out my comfort zone.

Will post again after my experiments.............allowing for the fact the house hasnt been raised to the ground lol..............in my old job as an avionics tech i always called in a sparky if i isolated the fault to a cabling fault...............nothing has changed in that respect.

Thanks again for the friendly advice

Regards Bill

 

[Billybalata]

I'd also go with the damaged wiring/cable theory, sounds like you'll need to expose the cabling in the loft to find the problem. There's a good chance the fault will be visible once you exposed the cables but if it's not you can either rewire the lot which shouldn't take long or you'll need a multimeter and possibly a mega tester to find the fault.

AVOS(multimeters) and continunity testers(megas) now that brings back some memories.............but mainly just for charging up capacitors then ----ing them at folk to catch lol...............looking more and more like a qualified sparky.............cheers for the advice

 

[Paul.M]

Come across this problem more than once. It could just be the lamp holder wires or terminal block melting over time with the heat from the lamp. Plus now the extra insulation from the floor boarding in the loft (reduced air flow and build up of heat over time).

Switch off the main iso at the CU for the entire house, test for dead, take out each of the bedrooms lamp holders and look for burning/melting. Replace any damaged parts. Switch back on and see if it trips the RCD again. If that does not work, get a spark in to run a test on the full circuit but I would assume cable damage from the switch to the bedroom lights and loft floor boards would have to come up to be able to fix it.