has anyone installed a ups battery back up system?

[tom-the-sparky]

Hi everyone

wondered if anyone has ever installed a ups battery back up for a circuit. A client wants a dedicated ring main for his computers running with a ups system!

Any tips? Any product recommendation?

thanks

 

[malcolmsanford]

View attachment UPS comparing system design configurations.pdf

Have a look at this, it will give you the basics may help.

You will need to know what they want to achieve with the unit. Example how long do they want the system to survive. Most smaller companies just want the capacity to allow them to shut down computers without losing data. So you may find they only want it active for say 10 minutes.

Larger systems it will be used as instant back-up to allow a generating set to activate, so again may only be for perhaps 10-15 minutes or until the generator loads up, but of course be a lot larger due to a larger installation.

 

[Spoon]

As malcom says, it all depends on what the customer wants.
We have used small ones that are only for one computer, giving you enough time to save anything, to 160kVA ones that have to keep a printing press running for a set time.

 

[leolec]

More often than not the reason for the dedicated ring is so that it is clean, and has no other devices such as kettles or welders on it.

The UPS would come after the ring and sit in the computer rack probably an APC ups which would be signal connected to the computers to automatically alert the computer to a power failure and the amount of battery usage. When battery usage has reached critical the computer will shutdown in an organised manner

 

[bk81]

The ones I install at work feed just one socket for at least 5 mins as the generators are supposed to kick in around 5 seconds. Although theres not a great deal of load.

Again the customer has got to tell you what they need/want really before you can get a price/model.

We use Eaton UPS, probably only because it's our stuff. You'll be able to find a range here

Eaton Products - UPS Systems plc

I should get commission for this!

 

[raithrovers1]

Just find out the power required and how long you want the UPS to carry on supplying power for after a mains fail. All of the above posts point you in the right direction for manufacturer's, my preference is APC for commercial systems. They come in rack mount or floor mount models and their website will give you all the info you need to pick the correct one for your needs. They are very easy to install and only need a mains supply input cable and an output load cable which you can connect upstream of the ring main. The batteries are usually always internal for small systems or supplied in purpose made cabinets with the plugs and sockets supplied for more back up time.
Also as mentioned before, the UPS can send a signal to the computers to shutdown in a safe manner when the power is lost. You will have to specify this option if required.

 

[Doug]

If they only need the UPS for the computers and not for printers, servers, networks, etc, then they could use laptops.

 

[Spoon]

Our laptops at work have a built in UPS. When you unplug them from the mains the batteries only last about 10 minutes before they die.

 

[Engineer54]

Think most of the information the OP has asked for, has been covered now and has some good leads to follow-up on...

The ones I install at work feed just one socket for at least 5 mins as the generators are supposed to kick in around 5 seconds. :

I don't think you'll find any generator that will take up any sort of load withing 5 seconds!! The fastest Stand-by gen set i know of, is powered by Detroit Diesel 2 stroke engine's, they, ....if set-up just right can just about manage 7 to 8 seconds, to on load. Malcolm would probably have experience of these set-ups, as most Saudi Diesel (company based in Riyadh) Stand-by generator sets are based on that 2 stroke Detroit engine...

 

[malcolmsanford]

To be honest Engineer i'm more a a Cummins man lol .....but yes know the Detroit and CAT generators. Though even that 8 seconds is fast ......lol, I know the modern units do stablise quite quickly, but I would be looking at 30s to a 1min to have the load back on line and stable....... but I'm a little out of date on the big boys toys, I leave that to the proper electricians .........HV lads.

 

[Engineer54]

30 seconds is what you would expect from a well set-up 4 stroke engine. Always use 2 stroke for emergency stand-by, (hospitals and the like) ...and those Detroit's just dig there feet in, and power-up catching the load as it goes!! lol!!

Wouldn't use them or any other 2 stroke for prime power though, then it's Always a 4 stroke, and my personal choice on gen-set in this case would be from Wilson's in Ireland...

 

[raithrovers1]

Just another pointer.
If you fit the UPS to supply the ring main - how are they going to stop other equipment being plugged in to this ring main?
Devices such as printers have a high surge current that will overate many UPS systems. What happens if somebody decides to plug a kettle into it? Beleive me - it happens!!!!

 

[Engineer54]

We normally use a bright yellow face plate to distinguish special condition circuits like this,...but these are quite expensive special orders. Or, you can always use 13amp non-standard pin configured face plates and plug-tops, there only a little more expensive than your normal every day variety ...lol!!

 

[Knobhead]

45 seconds is the best I’ve seen from mains failure to geny up and running, Rolls Royce 500KVA set up. The short fall was made up in the mean time by a 300KVA UPS, it was a beast! The battery room was the size of the lounge in a good sized house.

 

[bk81]

it's in the BT exchanges and some other telecoms exchanges, it's only for dedicated boards so not full load, I think the 5 seconds is more theory than practice though.
Pretty sure most are diesel generators, some racket off them!

 

[Engineer54]

Had little bells ringing yesterday, as we all sometimes do ...lol!!! So went off to check some old bit's of files i've kept. Seems i Did make a mistake over the 7 second on load time, i quoted earlier in this thread, the corrected time is ''11 seconds''!!! And according to my old notes, that was for a one of the single 1600KVA Saudi Diesel Stand-by gen-sets at the Medical City project in Riyadh...

 

[Marvo]

We normally use a bright yellow face plate to distinguish special condition circuits like this,...but these are quite expensive special orders. Or, you can always use 13amp non-standard pin configured face plates and plug-tops, there only a little more expensive than your normal every day variety ...lol!!

Isn't it stated in the regs that you must use an exclusively configured plug and socket for dedicated circuits?

 

[Engineer54]

Isn't it stated in the regs that you must use an exclusively configured plug and socket for dedicated circuits?

My projects are overseas, i can find myself having to relate to 3 or 4 different national Regulations and codes and the like. So if the BRB says you need exclusive configured plug and sockets, then that's what you supply. As i stated, non-standard pin arrangement of 13A based plug and socket would fulfil this requirement fully!!!

 

[Marvo]

Where I am it's a requirement due to dedicated circuits not being supplied via RCD protection which is mandatory for all plug-in appliances.

 

[Engineer54]

Haha ...didn't notice your in S Africa!!!

 

[grantr37]

Think most of the information the OP has asked for, has been covered now and has some good leads to follow-up on...



I don't think you'll find any generator that will take up any sort of load withing 5 seconds!! The fastest Stand-by gen set i know of, is powered by Detroit Diesel 2 stroke engine's, they, ....if set-up just right can just about manage 7 to 8 seconds, to on load. Malcolm would probably have experience of these set-ups, as most Saudi Diesel (company based in Riyadh) Stand-by generator sets are based on that 2 stroke Detroit engine...

Maybe a flywheel UPS system would come on line after 5 seconds, with the battery UPS Systems coming online straight away, the battery systems can be set up inbetween the incoming mains supply/supplies so that they keep supplying continuous power to all systems and the flywheel acts as a re-boost device to give a high current power boost to heavy loads such as large motors etc....then the diesel generators would be given 20 seconds or so to start and run up to speed...while the flywheel loses its energy and momentum/rotation speed...the UPS Unit corrects the supply from the flywheel unit...

a building sized UPS system would be quite expensive, think of a 4m long 2m wide room with maybe 80 large 12 volt truck sized batteries on racks, with a room next door of 4m long and 3m wide, a forced air ventilation system for the battery room (and see-through outside wall vent grilles) as well as an air conditioning system for the UPS room (such as a Denco) with outside Air conditioning equipment to keep the room from overheating,and for example a small 50Kva UPS unit, space for the cables, various switch cabinets and changeovers need fitting, and there will need to be mains incomer cables to the UPS....it will also need commissioning/running in and signing off(full charge, full discharge,duration test,full load and half load test) which will take somebody from the company a whole day to do...and the unit will weigh about 250kg by itself not to mention all the batteries to move...

The batteries will need to be tested/maintained about twice a year, which will involve the use of a cell analyser unit, load banks and a hygrometer, as well as topping up...and they will need replaced probably every 3 years...so maintenance will be quite expensive (maybe 1500 pounds for 1 days work from a "consultancy")

Then theres the fire alarm system, and probably an IG55 Gas fire suppression system for the battery room and the UPS room...and the noise from the UPS Room...


Cost for a small building system- about £ 70,000 .....wonder if the person wanting a system knows this.....would be better off with a few desktop 10 minute UPS units...only 2 or 3 hundred pounds each...


take a look at the Chloride power UPS website for an idea of the kind of units available and the different sizes, ask for prices then show this to the customer...

 

[grantr37]

Theres big money in UPS units, I have known a person to be in Thailand fitting one on a container ship, in Holland 2 weeks later fitting one there, and 3 weeks after that being sent out to Delhi in India to fit a couple at a new build Bank office and IT centre...for a UK based company....


you can pick up secondhand units (2 or 3 years old) from surplus auction companies now and then (for as little as 700 pounds for a 100Kva) and they are basically unused and come with all paperwork...they are used on ships and in flight simulator sites, so any scrapping/decommisioning means that there are units up for grabs at disposal prices...but you need to be really quick as they get snaffled and end up exported from the UK....theres a company down in wales deals with all that stuff but you need to be lightning fast or youre last.....

 

[raithrovers1]

Theres big money in UPS units, I have known a person to be in Thailand fitting one on a container ship, in Holland 2 weeks later fitting one there, and 3 weeks after that being sent out to Delhi in India to fit a couple at a new build Bank office and IT centre...for a UK based company....


you can pick up secondhand units (2 or 3 years old) from surplus auction companies now and then (for as little as 700 pounds for a 100Kva) and they are basically unused and come with all paperwork...they are used on ships and in flight simulator sites, so any scrapping/decommisioning means that there are units up for grabs at disposal prices...but you need to be really quick as they get snaffled and end up exported from the UK....theres a company down in wales deals with all that stuff but you need to be lightning fast or youre last.....

Grant, who is it that deals with the auctions? PM me if you can.

 

[bk81]

a building sized UPS system would be quite expensive, think of a 4m long 2m wide room with maybe 80 large 12 volt truck sized batteries on racks, with a room next door of 4m long and 3m wide, a forced air ventilation system for the battery room (and see-through outside wall vent grilles) as well as an air conditioning system for the UPS room (such as a Denco) with outside Air conditioning equipment to keep the room from overheating,and for example a small 50Kva UPS unit, space for the cables, various switch cabinets and changeovers need fitting, and there will need to be mains incomer cables to the UPS....it will also need commissioning/running in and signing off(full charge, full discharge,duration test,full load and half load test) which will take somebody from the company a whole day to do...and the unit will weigh about 250kg by itself not to mention all the batteries to move...

The batteries will need to be tested/maintained about twice a year, which will involve the use of a cell analyser unit, load banks and a hygrometer, as well as topping up...and they will need replaced probably every 3 years...so maintenance will be quite expensive (maybe 1500 pounds for 1 days work from a "consultancy")

Then theres the fire alarm system, and probably an IG55 Gas fire suppression system for the battery room and the UPS room...and the noise from the UPS Room...


Cost for a small building system- about £ 70,000 .....wonder if the person wanting a system knows this.....would be better off with a few desktop 10 minute UPS units...only 2 or 3 hundred pounds each...


take a look at the Chloride power UPS website for an idea of the kind of units available and the different sizes, ask for prices then show this to the customer...

You've just described a telephone exchange! We put about 480kg of batteries into each of our 600x600 cabinets, and they're only to supply about 10-15 comms cabinets! They're slowly getting rid of their old battery rooms as all the critical equipment is fed from our systems...

 

[grantr37]

Done a few Data centres and a Railway project