has anyone installed a ups battery back up system?

tom-the-sparky · Mar 28, 2011

Hi everyone

wondered if anyone has ever installed a ups battery back up for a circuit. A client wants a dedicated ring main for his computers running with a ups system!

Any tips? Any product recommendation?

thanks

Engineer54 · Mar 30, 2011

Had little bells ringing yesterday, as we all sometimes do ...lol!!! So went off to check some old bit's of files i've kept. Seems i Did make a mistake over the 7 second on load time, i quoted earlier in this thread, the corrected time is ''11 seconds''!!! And according to my old notes, that was for a one of the single 1600KVA Saudi Diesel Stand-by gen-sets at the Medical City project in Riyadh...

Marvo · Mar 30, 2011

Engineer54 said:
We normally use a bright yellow face plate to distinguish special condition circuits like this,...but these are quite expensive special orders. Or, you can always use 13amp non-standard pin configured face plates and plug-tops, there only a little more expensive than your normal every day variety ...lol!!

Isn't it stated in the regs that you must use an exclusively configured plug and socket for dedicated circuits?

Engineer54 · Mar 30, 2011

Marvo said:
Isn't it stated in the regs that you must use an exclusively configured plug and socket for dedicated circuits?

My projects are overseas, i can find myself having to relate to 3 or 4 different national Regulations and codes and the like. So if the BRB says you need exclusive configured plug and sockets, then that's what you supply. As i stated, non-standard pin arrangement of 13A based plug and socket would fulfil this requirement fully!!!

Marvo · Mar 30, 2011

Where I am it's a requirement due to dedicated circuits not being supplied via RCD protection which is mandatory for all plug-in appliances.

Engineer54 · Mar 30, 2011

Haha ...didn't notice your in S Africa!!!

grantr37 · Mar 31, 2011

Engineer54 said:
Think most of the information the OP has asked for, has been covered now and has some good leads to follow-up on...

I don't think you'll find any generator that will take up any sort of load withing 5 seconds!! The fastest Stand-by gen set i know of, is powered by Detroit Diesel 2 stroke engine's, they, ....if set-up just right can just about manage 7 to 8 seconds, to on load. Malcolm would probably have experience of these set-ups, as most Saudi Diesel (company based in Riyadh) Stand-by generator sets are based on that 2 stroke Detroit engine...

Maybe a flywheel UPS system would come on line after 5 seconds, with the battery UPS Systems coming online straight away, the battery systems can be set up inbetween the incoming mains supply/supplies so that they keep supplying continuous power to all systems and the flywheel acts as a re-boost device to give a high current power boost to heavy loads such as large motors etc....then the diesel generators would be given 20 seconds or so to start and run up to speed...while the flywheel loses its energy and momentum/rotation speed...the UPS Unit corrects the supply from the flywheel unit...

a building sized UPS system would be quite expensive, think of a 4m long 2m wide room with maybe 80 large 12 volt truck sized batteries on racks, with a room next door of 4m long and 3m wide, a forced air ventilation system for the battery room (and see-through outside wall vent grilles) as well as an air conditioning system for the UPS room (such as a Denco) with outside Air conditioning equipment to keep the room from overheating,and for example a small 50Kva UPS unit, space for the cables, various switch cabinets and changeovers need fitting, and there will need to be mains incomer cables to the UPS....it will also need commissioning/running in and signing off(full charge, full discharge,duration test,full load and half load test) which will take somebody from the company a whole day to do...and the unit will weigh about 250kg by itself not to mention all the batteries to move...

The batteries will need to be tested/maintained about twice a year, which will involve the use of a cell analyser unit, load banks and a hygrometer, as well as topping up...and they will need replaced probably every 3 years...so maintenance will be quite expensive (maybe 1500 pounds for 1 days work from a "consultancy")

Then theres the fire alarm system, and probably an IG55 Gas fire suppression system for the battery room and the UPS room...and the noise from the UPS Room...

Cost for a small building system- about £ 70,000 .....wonder if the person wanting a system knows this.....would be better off with a few desktop 10 minute UPS units...only 2 or 3 hundred pounds each...

take a look at the Chloride power UPS website for an idea of the kind of units available and the different sizes, ask for prices then show this to the customer...

grantr37 · Mar 31, 2011

Theres big money in UPS units, I have known a person to be in Thailand fitting one on a container ship, in Holland 2 weeks later fitting one there, and 3 weeks after that being sent out to Delhi in India to fit a couple at a new build Bank office and IT centre...for a UK based company....

you can pick up secondhand units (2 or 3 years old) from surplus auction companies now and then (for as little as 700 pounds for a 100Kva) and they are basically unused and come with all paperwork...they are used on ships and in flight simulator sites, so any scrapping/decommisioning means that there are units up for grabs at disposal prices...but you need to be really quick as they get snaffled and end up exported from the UK....theres a company down in wales deals with all that stuff but you need to be lightning fast or youre last.....

raithrovers1 · Mar 31, 2011

grantr37 said:
Theres big money in UPS units, I have known a person to be in Thailand fitting one on a container ship, in Holland 2 weeks later fitting one there, and 3 weeks after that being sent out to Delhi in India to fit a couple at a new build Bank office and IT centre...for a UK based company....

you can pick up secondhand units (2 or 3 years old) from surplus auction companies now and then (for as little as 700 pounds for a 100Kva) and they are basically unused and come with all paperwork...they are used on ships and in flight simulator sites, so any scrapping/decommisioning means that there are units up for grabs at disposal prices...but you need to be really quick as they get snaffled and end up exported from the UK....theres a company down in wales deals with all that stuff but you need to be lightning fast or youre last.....

Grant, who is it that deals with the auctions? PM me if you can.

bk81 · Mar 31, 2011

grantr37 said:
a building sized UPS system would be quite expensive, think of a 4m long 2m wide room with maybe 80 large 12 volt truck sized batteries on racks, with a room next door of 4m long and 3m wide, a forced air ventilation system for the battery room (and see-through outside wall vent grilles) as well as an air conditioning system for the UPS room (such as a Denco) with outside Air conditioning equipment to keep the room from overheating,and for example a small 50Kva UPS unit, space for the cables, various switch cabinets and changeovers need fitting, and there will need to be mains incomer cables to the UPS....it will also need commissioning/running in and signing off(full charge, full discharge,duration test,full load and half load test) which will take somebody from the company a whole day to do...and the unit will weigh about 250kg by itself not to mention all the batteries to move...

The batteries will need to be tested/maintained about twice a year, which will involve the use of a cell analyser unit, load banks and a hygrometer, as well as topping up...and they will need replaced probably every 3 years...so maintenance will be quite expensive (maybe 1500 pounds for 1 days work from a "consultancy")

Then theres the fire alarm system, and probably an IG55 Gas fire suppression system for the battery room and the UPS room...and the noise from the UPS Room...

Cost for a small building system- about £ 70,000 .....wonder if the person wanting a system knows this.....would be better off with a few desktop 10 minute UPS units...only 2 or 3 hundred pounds each...

take a look at the Chloride power UPS website for an idea of the kind of units available and the different sizes, ask for prices then show this to the customer...

You've just described a telephone exchange! We put about 480kg of batteries into each of our 600x600 cabinets, and they're only to supply about 10-15 comms cabinets! They're slowly getting rid of their old battery rooms as all the critical equipment is fed from our systems...