Help!! Adding outlet in place of switch

[oods74]

Hi all, new around here!!

I'm hoping someone could advise on a little diy electrical work I want to undertake: I have an outdoor light which I never use, there is a power supply to it straight from the consumer unit with a switch in the line (indoors). I wish to replace the switch front panel with a power outlet socket and consequently lose the outside light. I have already fitted my purchased socket outlet but when i try to power a vacuum cleaner from it it blows the rcd on the consumer.

Pics of the existing switch:

Any help appreciated.

Thanks

 

[LankyWill]

Sorry to provide you with disappointing news, but it will never work as the lighting circuit which was originally in place is not sufficient to power a socket. GET AN ELECTRICIAN IN!!!!!! Im really biting my tongue here as well to the delight of the mods

 

[drzsta]

how about a picture of the new socket you connected up???

 

[davesparks]

There are lighting circuits, and there are power circuits.
A lighting circuit is designed to supply lights, a power circuit will provide power.
You are attempting to use a lighting circuit for power, do you see the problem?

 

[oods74]

Ok ok bad practice [emoji23]
Had a feeling it would be so, how do I go about gaining sockets in an old fashioned brick house??

 

[telectrix]

Ok ok bad practice [emoji23]
Had a feeling it would be so, how do I go about gaining sockets in an old fashioned brick house??

you employ the services of an old-fashioned electrician. :yesnod:

 

[davesparks]

Ok ok bad practice [emoji23]
Had a feeling it would be so, how do I go about gaining sockets in an old fashioned brick house??

Not bad practice, just plain wrong and potentially dangerous.

The basic process is to assess the existing wiring to ensure it is safe to extend it.
Then find suitable cable routes to the new locations.
Then install it
Then carry out testing
Turn it on
Carry out further testing and complete the paperwork
Then it's ready to be used

 

[telectrix]

if you post your location, one of us old farts might be close to give you a sensible quote. or you could employ a Electrical Trainee but they only know how to install sockets on a wood board in a classroom. :carolers:

 

[Adam W]

The circuit was designed for lighting - 100W per point as a basic rule of thumb. You're trying to run an appliance of around 1600W from it, which is more than the circuit was designed to handle.
It's probably going to be just as easy to get an electrician in to put a new socket next to this switch as it is to try to get this to work.

This situation actually happens alarmingly often, in my opinion due to poor design - I always think there should be a socket placed suitably conveniently to avoid anyone having to try to bodge something into the lighting circuit and thereby making all the lights trip when they try to use a vacuum cleaner or other high wattage appliance.

This is just a personal crusade of mine - other members seem to think you shouldn't ever need to clean wherever you're trying to, but you have illustrated my point perfectly.

 

[Pete999]

if you post your location, one of us old farts might be close to give you a sensible quote. or you could employ a Electrical Trainee but they only know how to install sockets on a wood board in a classroom. :carolers:

Now now Tel you will have the Police after you, but well said.

 

[Adam W]

Ok ok bad practice [emoji23]
Had a feeling it would be so, how do I go about gaining sockets in an old fashioned brick house??

Don't feel bad - there are 'electricians' on here who seem to think it's fine to do this in a loft for a TV booster on the assumption that nobody is ever going to plug anything else in, but that's a different argument.

There will be a way of routing cables for additional sockets - remember the cables for the light you're looking to replace didn't just grow there, but it may involve lifting floorboards and chasing into the walls, which will probably require redecoration.
You seem to have managed up until now without a socket in this position - could you wait until the next time you're ready to decorate?

 

[telectrix]

couls always wait for wireless solar powered sockets to beinvented, but pigs with wings will be flying before then.

 

[oods74]

So it's back to the drawing board for me then..

By the way, the appliance I wish to run from this outlet is only low wattage (cctv camera).

 

[Pete999]

couls always wait for wireless solar powered sockets to beinvented, but pigs with wings will be flying before then.

I got asked yesterday if I had been on the funny juice when I submitted a post, is that what you have been on Tel?

 

[Andy78]

So it's back to the drawing board for me then..

By the way, the appliance I wish to run from this outlet is only low wattage (cctv camera).

If you've got stuff worth protecting with CCTV, you can afford to get an electrician in.

 

[ruston]

To be honest , it's not the drawing board you should be considering , it's the British Standards.

 

[Adam W]

So it's back to the drawing board for me then..

By the way, the appliance I wish to run from this outlet is only low wattage (cctv camera).

I thought you said in post #1 that you'd tried to power a vacuum cleaner from it.
Presumably if you don't need the light you didn't have it put in; what is to say the next person who lives there doesn't need a power supply for a CCTV camera but would like to use the socket for a vacuum cleaner, tumble dryer, electric heater etc, then they've got a socket which apart from being positioned a bit high trips every time they try to use it, ie it's "faulty".

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Don't feel bad - there are 'electricians' on here who seem to think it's fine to do this in a loft for a TV booster on the assumption that nobody is ever going to plug anything else in, but that's a different argument.

There will be a way of routing cables for additional sockets - remember the cables for the light you're looking to replace didn't just grow there, but it may involve lifting floorboards and chasing into the walls, which will probably require redecoration.
You seem to have managed up until now without a socket in this position - could you wait until the next time you're ready to decorate?

That's a completely different scenario and you know it....a suitably labelled socket in a loft is entirely different to an unlabelled 13a socket in a living area of a house.

 

[7029 dave]

Well its so easy isn't it, just swap the front plate ?. Get somebody in that is competent, lighting cable you would not get me putting a socket on it 2.5mm minimum with an 16 amp ocpd.

 

[Adam W]

That's a completely different scenario and you know it....a suitably labelled socket in a loft is entirely different to an unlabelled 13a socket in a living area of a house.

A label isn't going to make any difference, especially in someone's house. Take this situation - it wasn't even a socket and the guy plugged a vacuum cleaner in and overloaded the lighting circuit.
Presumably by 'living area' you're referring to the idea that people don't generally go into the loft very often? That might be the case, but generally speaking the access to that area is more precarious, usually by means of a ladder, making it even more dangerous if the lighting circuit fails, which is made more likely by inviting temptation by putting a convenient socket on the lighting circuit. The lights going out and someone falling down the loft hatch only needs to happen once for it to be an inconvenience.

This isn't about having a dedicated socket on a lighting circuit, it's about increasing the likelihood of someone plugging something inappropriate into that lighting circuit.
If there were a 'normal' socket next to the labelled socket, unused switch, lighting socket or whatever, then if anyone needs to plug anything in they'll just use that instead of trying to be ingenious; it just so happens that if there were a 'normal' 13A socket there then that's what would get used for an aerial booster or whatever instead of an electrician looking for loopholes in the regs to avoid having to extend the socket circuit.

 

[slingshot2000]

What about replacing the switch with a 3 or 5amp round pin socket? I am sure the cctv camera won't pull more than 5amps.

Getting a qualified electrician in is the only safe route though.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

A label isn't going to make any difference, especially in someone's house. Take this situation - it wasn't even a socket and the guy plugged a vacuum cleaner in and overloaded the lighting circuit.
Presumably by 'living area' you're referring to the idea that people don't generally go into the loft very often? That might be the case, but generally speaking the access to that area is more precarious, usually by means of a ladder, making it even more dangerous if the lighting circuit fails, which is made more likely by inviting temptation by putting a convenient socket on the lighting circuit. The lights going out and someone falling down the loft hatch only needs to happen once for it to be an inconvenience.

This isn't about having a dedicated socket on a lighting circuit, it's about increasing the likelihood of someone plugging something inappropriate into that lighting circuit.
If there were a 'normal' socket next to the labelled socket, unused switch, lighting socket or whatever, then if anyone needs to plug anything in they'll just use that instead of trying to be ingenious; it just so happens that if there were a 'normal' 13A socket there then that's what would get used for an aerial booster or whatever instead of an electrician looking for loopholes in the regs to avoid having to extend the socket circuit.

Maybe we should all be using type D mcb's on lighting circuits then, so that if a bulb blows while in the loft there is a reduced chance of the OCPD going out and and plunging grandad into darkness necessitating a highly dangerous decsent down the ladder.....Or perhaps grandma might kill herself ascending the stairs to find out whats going on?
Maybe then it should be a regulation to install emergency lighting in lofts and stairs?

The point being that some people over think things and see problems that don't really exist, or might well happen by other means whatever precautions are taken.

 

[KennyKen]

I wonder if the OP is Australian, the outlets are rated 10 amp here and I frequently see them connected onto a lighting circuit for Fans ETC

 

[telectrix]

rugby fans or cricket fans\?

 

[KennyKen]

cricket Fans where I am. Rugby more east coast

 

[KennyKen]

Rugby the sport not the town in UK :stuart:

 

[telectrix]

what's it like down under, summer? here i's bloody cold and pi$$ing down.

 

[grandfortune]

A label isn't going to make any difference, especially in someone's house. Take this situation - it wasn't even a socket and the guy plugged a vacuum cleaner in and overloaded the lighting circuit.
Presumably by 'living area' you're referring to the idea that people don't generally go into the loft very often? That might be the case, but generally speaking the access to that area is more precarious, usually by means of a ladder, making it even more dangerous if the lighting circuit fails, which is made more likely by inviting temptation by putting a convenient socket on the lighting circuit. The lights going out and someone falling down the loft hatch only needs to happen once for it to be an inconvenience.

This isn't about having a dedicated socket on a lighting circuit, it's about increasing the likelihood of someone plugging something inappropriate into that lighting circuit.
If there were a 'normal' socket next to the labelled socket, unused switch, lighting socket or whatever, then if anyone needs to plug anything in they'll just use that instead of trying to be ingenious; it just so happens that if there were a 'normal' 13A socket there then that's what would get used for an aerial booster or whatever instead of an electrician looking for loopholes in the regs to avoid having to extend the socket circuit.

LMFAO, nothing wrong in a socket for an aerial booster, if anything else is plugged in the breaker goes, doings it job of protecting the cable, then your emergency light will shine brightly and activating an alarm and LED on both floors so someone knows your up there as i assume you've put one in due to the all the safety aspects that could go wrong. you never know these days

 

[KennyKen]

what's it like down under, summer? here i's bloody cold and pi$$ing down.

Its been a warm summer. First day of autumn today and it was 31 degrees. Summer can have consistent days of 40 degrees.. To which the Aussies have implemented an inclement weather policy - when it reaches 37 you get to go home fully paid and drink ****. If it rains and your outside or have to pass outside to get to your work area then you'll sit inside the Canteen and play cards till it passes.

 

[Adam W]

Maybe we should all be using type D mcb's on lighting circuits then, so that if a bulb blows while in the loft there is a reduced chance of the OCPD going out and and plunging grandad into darkness necessitating a highly dangerous decsent down the ladder.....Or perhaps grandma might kill herself ascending the stairs to find out whats going on?
Maybe then it should be a regulation to install emergency lighting in lofts and stairs?

The point being that some people over think things and see problems that don't really exist, or might well happen by other means whatever precautions are taken.

I don't see how installing enough sockets is "over thinking things".