Help needed please

[DIYdan]

Hi all, new here and seeking help.

I am only a DIY dad so excuse me if I dont know technical terms.

I'm in process of changing lights in kitchen, we have two. The first went fine just the live, neutral and earth, which is what I'm used to. The second however appears to be a loop for the double switch we have and as I took the last light away, the wires came free so I cannot tell how to connect the new fitting.

I've tried and tried but to no avail, the setup in the photo is where I'm at, this allows the second light in the kitchen to come on but the switch for this one does nothing.


At one point the switch for this light made both lights come on but flickering.

Anybody able to tell me which wires to move around and to where (from the picture) in order to get this working.

Help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Daniel

 

[telectrix]

first, is this light 2 way, as in 2 switches. second, those earth wires need sleeving.

and really, a local spark should be able to help. just a 1 hour call-out charge about £40

 

[DIYdan]

Thanks for your reply, it's a double light switch in the kitchen. I thought it odd that the earths were bare, I'll see if I can find some sleeve for them, but it worked like this previously so would that be stopping it from working now?

 

[telectrix]

the bare earth wires are nothing to do with the light working. as it's 2 way switched, you need to ID which colour wire does what. as i said. best call a local spark. he/she will have the gear to test and fix safely.
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being in Essex, you may have to wait for more helpful responses, 4pm to 8pm is prime time for fake tans.

 

[Dustydazzler]

£40 call-out

Might want to double that and add a tenner

 

[DIYdan]

£40 call-out

Might want to double that and add a tenner

Yeah be a 1er for callout for sure. I found a good YouTube video using wago connectors. I'll pick some up tomorrow and try again, it must only be like one wire misplaced as the feed through to the second kitchen light is working fine. Putting wago connectors in will modernise the wiring anyhow and make it easier to change the fitting in future aswell. I just hope it bloody works lol or then it's the dreaded callout

 

[Lou]

You will have to let us know if you manage to get it sorted out!

 

[Midwest]

Next time, quoting someone else, take a pic before doing anything.

 

[westward10]

Can you show a pic of the wires at the light switch.

 

[DIYdan]

You will have to let us know if you manage to get it sorted out!

Definitely will. Thanks for the replies
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Can you show a pic of the wires at the light switch.

The light switch wire is the one with yellow, I removed and checked to make sure the switch wire was correct

 

[westward10]

Still want to see. I take it one switch does one light the other switch t'other and it is not two way switched from somewhere else.

 

[DIYdan]

Still want to see. I take it one switch does one light the other switch t'other and it is not two way switched from somewhere else.

That is correct, I know the woring at the actual double switch is correct as until the old fitting came down this morning, they have been working in harmony for over 12 years lol. The problem lies somewhere in the wiring on the picture I provided. Does that picture look right to you? The second light as I mentioned comes on via its switch, just not the other so part of the circuit must be correct. Or if all the wiring is done correctly it may be a bad connection, the doubled wires are crammed into little choc boxes. That's where I'm hoping the wagos will help

 

[westward10]

Seeing the switch wires may indicate what is going on.

 

[DIYdan]

Seeing the switch wires may indicate what is going on.

Seeing the switch wires may indicate what is going on.

I tried taking from both angles, hope that's good enough for you to make out. It's the right hand switch that wont come on, the left hand switches light is working. Thanks for your help

 

[Jon Bateson]

Take the red and yellow out of the connector and join through. Leave the blue in live and put both blacks in neutral. If switches are working opposite to before transpose blue and yellow in switch. Power off and sleeve the earths
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[DIYdan]

Take the red and yellow out of the connector and join through. Leave the blue in live and put both blacks in neutral. If switches are working opposite to before transpose blue and yellow in switch. Power off and sleeve the earths
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So basically place the blue and yellow wire together where the blacks are and place the blacks into the yellows old position? If the switches are reversed what do you mean by transpose the blue and yellow wires. Sorry ?

 

[westward10]

As above. .

 

[DIYdan]

As above. .

That's great I will try that tomorrow when I have daylight. The only thing I need clarifying is if the switches are reversed. I'm not clear on what to do then to get them to work as they always have. It's great to have found such a helpful forum, really appreciate all the help

 

[Deleted account]

That helps thanks.

I tried taking from both angles, hope that's good enough for you to make out. It's the right hand switch that wont come on, the left hand switches light is working. Thanks for your help

View attachment 52749 View attachment 52750

Does one switch turn on one light and the other turn on the other?
Basically you do not turn both lights on with one switch?

 

[DIYdan]

That helps thanks.



Does one switch turn on one light and the other turn on the other?
Basically you do not turn both lights on with one switch?

Yeah its a double switch, one for each light in the kitchen, the switch either allows their solo use or both at the same time

 

[Jon Bateson]

So basically place the blue and yellow wire together where the blacks are and place the blacks into the yellows old position? If the switches are reversed what do you mean by transpose the blue and yellow wires. Sorry ?

Leave the blue where it is. Remove the red that’s with it and the yellow that’s in N and join them together. Then put the two blacks together into the N terminal. Transpose means swap blue and yellow positions either at switch or fitting if wrong switch operates wrong light and it bugs you

 

[DIYdan]

Leave the blue where it is. Remove the red that’s with it and the yellow that’s in N and join them together. Then put the two blacks together into the N terminal. Transpose means swap blue and yellow positions either at switch or fitting if wrong switch operates wrong light and it bugs you

Thankyou for clearing that up for me, it’s been a long day. Will joining the red and yellow with the choc block that the blacks are currently in be sufficient for the join or should I go with the wago?

 

[westward10]

Wago. . .

 

[DIYdan]

I will pop out in the morning to get some wago blocks and some sleeve for the earths, and connect as instructed above and post my findings, hopefully success, but pictures if not. Thanks to everyone

 

[westward10]

It was so obvious once we could see the switch wires

 

[DIYdan]

I really hope it works. If I wasn’t bald already, I definately would have been from the stress it’s caused me lol

 

[Jon Bateson]

Try being a sparks then ...... on second thoughts lol

 

[DIYdan]

Just a thought before tomorows attempt, it’s pretty tough getting all those earths into the block, could I theoretically group them together in a wago with 5 ports and then use another single copper earth wire from the wago to the fitting to make it easier?

 

[westward10]

Just a thought before tomorows attempt, it’s pretty tough getting all those earths into the block, could I theoretically group them together in a wago with 5 ports and then use another single copper earth wire from the wago to the fitting to make it easier?

Yes you can.

 

[telectrix]

Just a thought before tomorows attempt, it’s pretty tough getting all those earths into the block, could I theoretically group them together in a wago with 5 ports and then use another single copper earth wire from the wago to the fitting to make it easier?

get the wago 221 lever type. it's a lot easier to get the cpc (earth) wires in. with the push in wagos, you're generally pushing in the sleeving and not the conductor.

 

[DIYdan]

It worked! Had to switch the blue and yellow wires around at the switch as they were reversed and changing them at the light made no difference but it's working perfectly now. I sleeved all the earths and used a wago with an extension to the socket aswell. Getting all the wires back into the ceiling was a real tight jam, as was getting the cables into the fittings terminal as it sits so flush to the ceiling and had very little play, length wise. When I've a little time I'll see if I can tidy it up a little in there, but for now the lights are working and that's the most important. Thanks to everyone for all your help and replies, really appreciate it ???