Help please - missing current, where has it gone?

[olfrog]

Hi all,

I'm straying over from the plumbers forum today.

I'm putting in a new ceiling and some downlights in kitchen. However, while taking out the old light and putting in the new, something funny has happened in the utility (the next and final room in the circuit).

I have drawn a quick image below. But basically, using a tester screwdriver (up a ladder with the wires pulled through), the power goes through the kitchen okay (i can wire a light in and it works fine). The power is also in the light switch of the utility. BUT the downlighters in the utility no longer work and the power does not flow back through the blue wire in the kitchen.

I have changed all the bulbs, and so it's not that. (I wonder whether the blue wire has been pulled out somewhere in the utility?)

What have i done?

Thanks in advance.

Ol

 

[Dunc]

If the blue wires are showing to be live it means your neutral is not continuous at some point.

On another note please be prepared for a battering by some people on here for the following reasons:

1. You are carrying out notifiable work covered by the scope of Part P and don't have correct test equipment to prove the work is satisfactorily installed.

2. Neon screwdrivers are dangerous, throw it in the bin.

3. Someone will suggest you get a Part P registered spark in to do the work, electricity is dangerous and i would suggest that you don't know quite enough to be carrying out this sort of work.

Best of luck :helmet:

 

[truckster]

Sounds like you may have left a neutral out perhaps

And what Dunc said!!

 

[olfrog]

thanks guys - i realise swapping a light in a kitchen is part P. should have put that in my email.

prepared for a bit of a battering over this.

 

[Sparky Ninja]

thanks guys - i realise swapping a light in a kitchen is part P. should have put that in my email.

prepared for a bit of a battering over this.

Okay then..









:19:
:59:
:13:

:boxing_smiley:
:90:
:6:
:89:




there you go.

 

[olfrog]

So basically, once i've got back through the hordes of youth smashing stuff, I need to trace the neutral?

 

[telectrix]

sounds like a plan.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

So basically, once i've got back through the hordes of youth smashing stuff, I need to trace the neutral?

Do be careful.....I had to pick up the pieces recently when a guy who thought he could do it got killed.....he reckoned he didnt need an electrician either.

 

[Marvo]

Hmmm, missing neutral faults can be difficult to trace at the best of times and also dangerous if you don't understand the implications. The neutrals on the load side of the break become live so assume every colour wire can give you a shock whilst fault-finding.

I would advise you visually check all the connections in the fittings and the ceiling one by one with the power off. If there's connections that are inaccessible then the installation is already illegal. If you can't find the fault that way then get a local sparky that's recommended by someone and just pay him for his hour on site to find the fault, it shouldn't break the bank.

 

[olfrog]

Thanks guys,

Have had the lighting circuit off for a few days now so taking no risks. :clown:

@Marvo - can't afford an electrician as didn't manage to get any TVs over the last few nights (Kidding, i am now 99% sure of the issue so just need to install new cabling.)

I tested everything again last night and it seems that the neutral is definitely broken half way between the two junction boxes. I must have snapped it somehow.

Unfortunately as the joists all run the opposite way (!!!), i will probably have to remove part of the ceiling to get in and drill holes through the joists to lay a new cable between the two junction boxes.

Is this what you'd suggest i do?

O

 

[Smugley]

Mate, to be fair I don't think anyone on this forum would suggest you do this. You need to complete a minor works certificate for this work, and that means using properly calibrated test equipment to record R1+R2, insulation resistance and earth loop impedence as well as confirm RCD trip times, if present, suitability of protective device, current carrying capacity of the cable and adequecy of the installation's earthing and bonding. The certificate number will be supplied to your local Building Control when you notify the work. Sorry, probably not what you want to hear, but as for me, I wouldn't go near a gas or water pipe, except to attach an earth clamp to it. Downlights are one of the major causes of house fires in this country. You will be responsible for this circuit once you modify it.

 

[mickys86]

There's the battering u was expecting lol

 

[Des 56]

It would be surprising if the break is anywhere other than a joint,it seems a coincidence that it was intact, and now after alteration it is now open circuit.
Are you confindent that your testing was ok

 

[olfrog]

@des 56

Our entire edwardian flat was fitted by loonies. The plumbing used incorrect stuff, and when i changed one light it had one of those dodgy clear plastic connectors (you know the kind, completely open).

Might get a tester off screwfix...

@smugley i'd call you smug if you weren't so right. time to call a pal for a free dinner me thinks..

 

[Des 56]

A plumber comes more expensive than a spark
A mutual job arranged with a spark will probably make you a few bob as well