HELP please with next inspection date

[tom20]

Currently doing occupied property work for Camden Council at the moment and have a slight issue with Next Inspection Date and also the Extent of the work covered.

My issue is with the non-full rewires that we are doing at the moment. Where it is just a Kitchen Ring Rewire and CCU change plus a few remedials.

The Electrical division from the council are trying to get me to put 10 years for the entire property even though we have not touched the main ring nor lighting circuits. He says that if i have carried out a full test on the property and the results are good then it should be 10 years?


To solve this issue i was thinking that i could put 10 years on a non rewire to keep them happy. but put in my "extent of work" exactly what we have done and that this cert does not cover the original wiring that we have not touched.
the only problem with this is the next inspection date label on the ccu and also what sort of certification covers the rest of the property that has not been touched?

Basically trying to find what the maximum and right thing to put for a certificate where we have only rewired kitchen and ccu. In the "next inspection date" "extent of work" and Label.

thanks
tom

 

[Paul.M]

Issue an EIC for the C/U change and kitchen rewire.

Issue an EICR for the rest of the house and date it according from the results you get.

 

[tom20]

This is exactly what i was thinking of but possibly trying to avoid as well as maybe my company will want more money for 2x certs but the contractor wont want to etc etc.
To be honest this guy was being pretty rude on the phone saying i shouldn't be in the position to issue certs... when i don't think it is very clear. and i'm only trying to be safer rather than just issuing 10 years for everything.

Is there anyway it can be put on one install certificate?

 

[Silly Sausage]

If you go by the letter of the Law that is GN3...
If they are rented domestic properties, the max period between I&Ts is 5 years or change of occupancy.

Table 3.2 on page 65.

 

[tom20]

ah cheers forgot about this. however it says recommended. and also to the left it says the inspector can increase or decrease that of table 3.2 :S

 

[tom20]

so i have made a template for my Install certs after speaking to someone from nic.

in the extent of work box...


1. Rewire of Kitchen Ring, Cooker Circuit & Hallway Socket.
2. Renew CCU to 17th Edition Standard.
3. Upgrade to means of earthing/bonding.
4. Appliances, Central Heating Wiring and Controls is not Included in this Installation.
5. Length of Next Inspection Date is for the Entire Electrical Layout of the Property. Works Done Listed in this Box (Under this Installation Certificate) do not need to be Inspected for 10 years from the Date of this Certificate.
6. Existing Circuits (If Any) will be marked in page 3, Circuit Details & Test Results.

 

[tom20]

If you think i have missed anything let me know. apart from that, cheers for the help.

 

[Guest55]

He says that if i have carried out a full test on the property ........

and did you ???
if the council instructed and paid your company to carry out a periodic inspection at the same time as the kitchen rewire then they have every right to expect 2 certs , both eic & eicr at no extra cost to themselves.
you need to get your administration systems sorted fast if youre in the public housing game instead if tinkering with form layouts.

 

[Deleted member 72666]

If you think i have missed anything let me know. apart from that, cheers for the help.

You've missed the point that Archy made in post 4.

 

[tom20]

I'm only a T&I Inspector for the company so unfortunately i am not involved in any decisions or meetings, so its pretty difficult for me. I'm just trying to do the best from what i know.

As far as i am aware from recent talks. The Council/Contractor wanted 10 years on the works done. Nothing has been mentioned about the rest of the property. I actually just test it in accord to duty of care, as we replace the CCU. The guy from NICEIC said i must only full fill my duty of care on the untouched circuits and mention on page 3 which circuits are original.

 

[Deleted member 72666]

I'm only a T&I Inspector for the company so unfortunately i am not involved in any decisions or meetings, so its pretty difficult for me. I'm just trying to do the best from what i know.

As far as i am aware from recent talks. The Council/Contractor wanted 10 years on the works done. Nothing has been mentioned about the rest of the property. I actually just test it in accord to duty of care, as we replace the CCU. The guy from NICEIC said i must only full fill my duty of care on the untouched circuits and mention on page 3 which circuits are original.

You must have valid reasons for increasing (or decreasing for that matter) the re-test period and not on the say so of the persons ordering the works, you are the tester and it's what you feel is right for that installation after considering the circumstances.

 

[tom20]

This is exactly what i have been telling them. At the end of the day it is what the inspector deems safe and acceptable. However morales do not matter in the face of the contractors and councils, they want the maximum time allowed so they don't have to spend any money.

I just thought i would share my situation and see where people can help. I am trying to gather as much material to show these numptys i cannot issue 10 year certs for a property containing cable that i we have not touched and is probably 10-20 years old!

 

[Deleted member 72666]

This is exactly what i have been telling them. At the end of the day it is what the inspector deems safe and acceptable. However morales do not matter in the face of the contractors and councils, they want the maximum time allowed so they don't have to spend any money.

I just thought i would share my situation and see where people can help. I am trying to gather as much material to show these numptys i cannot issue 10 year certs for a property containing cable that i we have not touched and is probably 10-20 years old!

Then there's not a problem as the maximum recommended time for that installation is 5 years!

 

[cobrauk]

Didnt you say that the CU has been changed ? item 2. Renew CCU to 17th Edition Standard. if so you should be testing the whole installation anyway then it would be one installation certificate with a note stating you are unable to check hidden wiring as part of the test.

 

[somersetsparks]

Cobra is right, you would have tested all circuits that you reconnected, stick all of your limitations and deviations down on the EIC and put a 5 year sticker on it?!

 

[tom20]

Yes. after speaking with NICEIC we agreed that because we change the CCU, i have a duty of care to do basic tests on the existing circuits before they are powered back on. which i couldn't agree more. But the Council & Contractor still want me to put 10 years on that certificate lol.

 

[rattlehead85]

Camden Council!! Spent 5 years working on their crap!! They are well known for expecting the maximum amount for next to no money!! At the end of the day all they are interested in is you putting your name to their already neglected stock which they have failed to properly maintain over the years.
Have you worked on Rowley Way yet? my case rests lol.

 

[tom20]

lol glad to hear someone with some similar experience. I'm hunting around through all the books to find factual information that i can use in the meeting later this week to stop them from asking for 10 years on partial rewires.

So i already have guidance note 3 p65 printed out. and i have asked niceic to email me confirmation of their view. but was wondering if anyone knew of anymore to help?

 

[rattlehead85]

The problem is mate the people asking you to put 10 years on their certs don't even know why they are asking you to do so. You will find when you attend any meeting with Camden officials all you will get is some bloke rattling off a load of crap which he has had relayed to him by some other idiot who was told by Joe blogs.
I got queried once by one of their so called electrical engineers over a periodic report i did on one of their void properties. The report had about 12 code 1 departures and when he turned up to the meeting with his 'socket and see' plug top tester and got confronted with my MF tester, clamp tester and all my test equipment he chimes up 'Our other contractors never carried all this'....no wonder their properties are so bad and their tenants are forever calling the emergency call out number!

 

[tom20]

You know the situation i am in! unfortunately there is not much documentation on certifying partial rewires.

 

[rattlehead85]

Also forgot to mention we were on the brown edition of the regs at the time and Mr so called 'engineer' turns up with his brief case and pulls out an old 16th edition blue cover copy of the regs book!!
If you arrive with GN3 and the current BPG and OSG they will not know what to hit you with!

 

[rattlehead85]

We lost the contract because apparently we caused to much agro with the hierarchy over the safety and condition of the main supplies to some of their tower blocks which they already knew were extremely hazardous!

 

[tom20]

which is similar to what they are threatening to do to us.

 

[rattlehead85]

TBH i was glad to see the back of that lot because they are an accident or a death waiting to happen if it hasn't already. By far the worst council i have ever worked for and their duty of care amongst staff is appalling to say the least.