Holding back money

[marcshaw]

Hi all, have a little problem with a Fire Alarm installer who we have worked for, for 10 weeks, he has paid 2 weeks worth of invoices, but on Monday he decided to chuck us off site as our work was in his words "****". There was 2 or 3 cables that need to be tied up a bit nicer but the rest of the job is 100%. We started with no technical spec just drawings with cable routes and positions, and this had very little info on it. They now want to charge us £170 per day per man to put it right, and they are saying that they will tell me at the end how much it has cost me. There was no formal contract between us just a verbal price per point. Any ideas?
Thanks in advance

Marc Shaw

 

[cornburn]

Oh dear, sounds nasty If I was in your shoes first option would be to have a friendly meeting with them and try and get it sorted face to face, making sure it doesn't turn into a row. Biting your tongue and making them feel they've done the best thing will likely save you a whole lot of trouble. If they threw you off site saying that there must have been something other than a couple of untidy cables that made them flip, could be something they overheard someone saying or completely unrelated to the job? Find out what this is so you can address it.

If the guy in charge turns out to be an a hole then get someone else there too so you've more chance of getting it sorted and leaving them happy. If you don't manage to sort it out with them with only a verbal agreement I would have thought you'll have lost your money and time and will struggle to get anything out of them, especially if you've happily walked off the job without sorting out the problem.

Also bear in mind that if they've called someone else in to "rectify" your work and the new guy knows they weren't happy with what you did he's likely to make a lot of work out of the job and his bill will probably be close to what you were owed, leaving you with nothing. Don't let it get that far, nip it in the bud.

 

[marcshaw]

Thanks CORNBURN, we didn't happily walk off site, and we have given them every opportunity to let us back to do what's wrong. They are trying it on big time. This is an emai I have sent.

Colin, as you have made us aware there have been some issues with the work carried out to DS3 and The Four Seasons. I am sending you a formal request to let “us” put right any works that you are not happy with, at “our” cost and at no extra cost to SYCOL. As we had no formal or detailed technical specification for either job, I find it hard to accept that the only explanation to the standard of our work is that its “****” in your words. There are some minor issues that are easily put right. With the right information from the start we would have never been in this position with you now. None of the items below, in my opinion, warrant being asked to leave site for.
So I am taking this opportunity to offer to put right any defects and any problems you may have with my work at no cost to you.
You have already started to put labour on the 3rd floor to rectify some of the issues, and I am querying the £170.00 per day per man you are trying to charge me. I have offered to put this right at no financial cost to yourselves, but you have so far refused.

In the phone conversation we had yesterday you had mentioned the following
 Cable lengths, at no point have you or anyone else from SYCOL given us instruction to lengths. All points are wired to the drawings and there is enough cable to terminate at the point.
 Shot firing, there is 3 short runs that require tidying up,
 Cable tied to uni-strut, this is 1 tie which can be removed as it provides no support.
 The twisted cables, these were done by the other “subbie” Matt and have nothing to do with us.
 Cables run above pipes, there was only 3 times this happened, again an easy fix.
 The use of ladder tray for cable support, this was given the OK by Nick on Four Seasons site, as was using uni-strut for short “hops”. Again this has only occurred twice on site and can be easily fixed.

Please feel free to call me to discuss any points or queries.

Thanks for your reply

 

[bugsy]

I think your being shafted , normally you would leave a 2m loop at each device but if you had no spec or scope of works to work from they are partly to blame, with regards to remeadial works they need to send you a concise report listing the defects ( not snags )
I hope you have an for the work, if not your in for a bit of a fight
£ 170 per is not over thr top

 

[cornburn]

Oh dear, I feel for you - sounds like you've already tried to make peace with the guy and it does sound like he's being very picky. Is there anyone above him you can go to and explain that you only want to help make things right? If not you're a bit stuck with no contract and it might be a solicitor job. I can't see how they can deduct money from you for someone else to put it right without giving you the opportunity to do that yourself first, however with only a verbal agreement on pricing they can near enough decide how much they want to pay you anyway. Hopefully you won't be too much out of pocket from it and can maybe put it down to experience if you don't get anywhere, I'm awful for letting these sort of things eat me up for years which is often the worst way to be about it.

Best of luck with it, sorry I can't be more use!

 

[swparksey]

Hey from what I understand they are not at liberty to withhold funds, but they can dispute the invoice. If they do this they have to give you reasonable opportunity to put right any defects. As for the £170 do not agree to pay it, consequential damages or costs are not your responsibility. They would have to pursue these costs through the court system.
If they do not pay you then just LBA (letter before action) then Court, they will put in a defence but if they have refused access to correct any outstanding issues and you can prove this the court should rule in your favour. If you then get paid is usually another matter

Hope it helps.

 

[marcshaw]

swparksey Thanks for that mate, thats a real help.

 

[marcshaw]

Just found this, it may help others too.
thanks for the advice and help lads


You are entitled to 14 days notice to rectify a mistake before contra charges can be applied.

If you make a legitimate mistake onsite, by rights, you are entitled to rectify the problem yourself. You are entitled to be informed of any problems and you are also entitled to rectify them BEFORE you are contra charged.

 

[Guest123]

Dont lose any kip over this mate......the guy who asked you to leave site will be out of pocket as not only will he have to pay your bill but also the bill of the guys he's now got in to carry on.

It's in every legal document you will ever see....you must be given the oppurtunity to put right any "claimed" defects BEFORE anyone can claim anything. Only if you refuse can the client then instruct another party to carry out the work and seek recompense from you.

It's even in the NICEIC complaints procedure.

 

[marcshaw]

Thanks Lenny, that was my understanding of it too, but its good to hear it from others.

 

[vitoboy]

mate..
in this day and age we must all get everything in writing.i know this to my own cost now.
no work starts without my customers being served with at least terms and conditions.
its saved me twice this year but only after one customer took me for few hundred quid.
as for the other stuff yep... they must give you a chance to correct any mistakes your self!
its a tough year dont let these £$%%^%&*$%^£$" get away with it.
all the best.