Hotel Rewired on 3 phase supply using only 1 phase and no installation certs lol

[rallyandy]

Hi guys want to pick your brains, been called to test and check out a small hotel consisting of 17 rooms that has been re wired by 2 new so called sparkys fresh out of apprenticeship to find that the whole building is wired off one phase of a 3 phase supply, they didn't issue installation certificate, probably for this reason and i found basement and ground floor rings interconnected, what would you record this as, do i issue a PIR instead as i never did the installation, which i think is best as im not prepared to put my name against it as a new install, and also what code would you use ? , having a bit of a brain fart tonight so could do with some advice

 

[telectrix]

definitely as you say, do a PIR. don't put your name to an EIC. if 2 separate rings are interconnected, IMO a code 2 at least, as if you isolae 1 circuit it will still be live from the other ring. as regards the use of only 1 phase. are you sure all 3 phases are live, maybe the owner only wants single phase.

 

[Des 56]

i found basement and ground floor rings interconnected,
Could you expand on your findings?

Is there an actual 3 phase meter presently in use ?

 

[rallyandy]

hi telectrix, yeah defo gonna do a PIR which the owners are happy with, i traced the link between rings and sorted this problem out, as you say i had to isolate basement and ground floor to kill the power, i found they had spured the rings together ????
and to Des, no they dont have a clue with electrics so contracted these lads to carry out the re wire and fell into the trap that everything works so it must be alright, there are 3 separate meters though all from the same supplier, i think it is bad practice even though i suppose their is nothing to say it cant be wired this way apart from the inbalance on the incoming supply, it was probably to save on cost as usual as the ball park figure i gave them to re wire the place if it was me nearly gave them a heart attack lol

 

[IQ Electrical]

You need to make an assessment of maximum demand before you can decide on the merits of single or 3-phase installation.

When was the rewire done and what made the client ask you to 'test' the new installation?

 

[rallyandy]

Hi Iq i have done a load test on the installation, with everything on it is drawing 78Amps, the heating is gas and the kitchen appliances are fed off another supply from what was an adjacent building as it is now part of the same building, the incoming supplies are 125a bs88 fuses to the individual meters, the rewire was done in February and the sparkys disappeared at the end of the job without issuing certs, after numerous phone calls the client called me through recommendation (haha) to test the installation, for the council and fire brigade

 

[IQ Electrical]

So the client paid before receiving any certification?

Why do people make it so easy for the cowboys then moan about the work and lack of certification when they seek out the lowest denominator of installer and don't even bother with a few simple checks?

Do your PIR and be thorough, a higher percentage detailed inspection than usual and hopefully things won't be too bad, buy cheap, buy twice!

 

[rallyandy]

good advice IQ, i have checked over 80% of sockets and lights and believe it or not they are fine and terminated well, also the Ze and other results check out fine, but i have niggling doubts as to the cable runs etc that are out of site, the client doesnt want the floors lifted etc, so with this all aside what would you put on the PIR even though the loading is off 1 phase etc and the ring faults have been rectified, i appreciate your advice. as you say why does cost seem to always trump quality when in the long term its costs clients more getting things put right, i have already recommended that the supply be split across the phases

 

[Octopus]

Hi Iq i have done a load test on the installation, with everything on it is drawing 78Amps, the heating is gas and the kitchen appliances are fed off another supply from what was an adjacent building as it is now part of the same building, the incoming supplies are 125a bs88 fuses to the individual meters, the rewire was done in February and the sparkys disappeared at the end of the job without issuing certs, after numerous phone calls the client called me through recommendation (haha) to test the installation, for the council and fire brigade

"after numerous phone calls" - didn't the client know where they were based/lived. Surely a business owner wouldn't be so daft to deal with a company with a mobile number only? They must have left an invoice!!

Madness on the part of the client!

 

[IQ Electrical]

I would be cautious on the 3-phase recommendation unless the split would be natural ie. a board per floor over 3 floors etc.

At a maximum demand of 78 Amps and assuming no 3-phase equipment then I'd be happy with single phase.

Your PIR would not normally include 'cables concealed within trunking and conduits or concealed under floors, in roof spaces and generally within the fabric of the building'.

 

[Des 56]

"after numerous phone calls" - didn't the client know where they were based/lived. Surely a business owner wouldn't be so daft to deal with a company with a mobile number only? They must have left an invoice!!

Madness on the part of the client!

Agreed,but would rather term it
Foolish frugality

How many I wonder have ever bought a tool from a pound shop because it appeared to be able to do what the genuine article could do
I think we all have sometime or other

Percieved bargains will always catch the eye, hence the culture of people going for the cheapest prices in our game

It could be constrained, but there will never be the will on the governments part to make it so with electrical installation

 

[telectrix]

Agreed,but would rather term it
Foolish frugality

How many I wonder have ever bought a tool from a pound shop because it appeared to be able to do what the genuine article could do
I think we all have sometime or other

Percieved bargains will always catch the eye, hence the culture of people going for the cheapest prices in our game

It could be constrained, but there will never be the will on the governments part to make it so with electrical installation

well, the more people electrocuted or burnt to death, the less pensions to be paid out. ssssimples

 

[rallyandy]

hi murdoch, they were friends of friends and all that thought they could be trusted but obviously not, big lesson learned for the clients when it comes to electrics !!!!,

And thanks IQ was thinking on those lines as well so that has confirmed it for me