How to wire Programmable Room Thermostat to Heating System without Zone Valves ?

[topquark]

Yes, you can do that, however then the programmer side on either the programmable stat or orig programmer would need to be set to 24H ON. You're effectively placing them in series (so they'd both need to be "on" for the boiler to fire).

I rather assumed (more fool me) that the reason for getting a programmable stat was that you'd be replacing the boiler with a combi eventually .... otherwise you could have just used a normal stat (no need to be programmable if you're keeping the orig programmer). Unless, ultimately you want to have more than the one CH zone I guess

Terminals 3, 7 and 8 refer to inside the boiler, if you look at the picture you've posted it appears that the boiler has had it's switched live wired into the live supply (and is hence on permanently).

 

[chris murphy]

"Hello topquark",

Thanks for Your Reply.

Regarding the Programmer and Programmable Room Thermostat having to Both be ON - Programmer On 24 Hours - Why could the Programmer not just be On Timed - As the Programmable Room Thermostat Settings are Battery Operated the Thermostat would only be Operating on the Temperature Settings [Re. Turning the Boiler and Pump On & Off] when the Programmer Turns ON the Heating System / Bolier & Pump [ Through the Thermostat]

The Programmable Room Thermostat does not need Electrical Power to keep the Time or Temperature Settings - So although the Thermostat would be Operating `Internally`- going through the Settings throughout the Day & Night - Only when the Switched Live from the Programmer was going through the Programmable Room Thermostat would it Switch the Boiler and Pump On & Off at the Temperature Settings for each Time Period - I hope that this is Correct ?

Could You Please let Me know if what I have described about the Operation of the Programmer and Programmable Room Thermostat [Above] is Correct.

From a Heating Engineers point of view the idea of having a Programmable Room Thermostat is so that when the Heating is `On` the Programmable Room Thermostat would Control the Firing of the Boiler at whatever Temperature was Set for a particular Time Period on the Thermostat.

Imagine the Weather is particularly Cold - The Heating needs to be On for most of the Day & Night :

For example perhaps: Heating comes On at 06:00 Hrs - In order to Heat Up the House as quickly as possible the Programmable Room Thermostat is Set at 24 Degrees between 06:00 Hrs and 08:30 Hrs.

At 08:30 Hrs until 16:00 Hrs You want the House to be Heated - But NOT to the Highest Temperature - Perhaps Set the Temperature on the Programmable Room Thermostat to 18 Degrees for that Time Period [Temperatures as You know are a Very Personal Choice]

At 16:00 Hrs You want the House to `Warm Up` more for People coming in from Work - Set the Programmable Room Thermostat to 23 Degrees from perhaps 1600 Hrs to 00:00 Hrs.

This Temperature can be Manually Adjusted at the Programmable Room Thermostat if required when People are at Home in the Evening [At any Time]

As I mentioned the Temperature Choices are a Very Personal thing - People would get used to what Temperatures that they need to use - I am NOT recommending the Temperatures that I used in this example.

With regard to the use of a Programmer as well as the Proigrammable Room Thermostat - There will be a Hot Water Zone when I Install the New Boiler [Not a Combi] - So it will become a Fully Pumped `S Plan` Heating System [2 Zone Valves] which will need a Programmer.

My Honeywell ST 9400C Programmer has been Controlling the Heating System at my Home - which was previously a Fully Pumped S Plan System - Until I stripped Out the Zone Valves - Pump and quite a lot of Pipework during the early Summer - getting ready to Install a New Boiler in a different Area of my Home.

It is because I removed the Zone Valves and Pump configuration that I need to wire up the Programmable Room Thermostat as I have asked about.


Thank You Very Much for your Help with this - I Apologise If this has been `Frustrating` regarding My lack of Electrical Terminology and My `Explanations / Descriptions of what I wanted to do with the Wiring of thre Thermostat - I really appreciate You persevering with Me.

Would it be O.K. to Send You a Private Message IF I want to confirm anything when I start to carry out the Wiring ? - I would NOT bother You unless I had to.


"Thank You topquark" - As I previously mentioned You have done Me a VERY BIG FAVOUR here - I will NOT Forget that.


Chris

 

[topquark]

It depends how they are wired: OK, say programmer one is set to turn on CH from 00:00-11:59 and programmer two is set to turn on from 12:00 to 23:59. Then if they are wired in series the CH will never come on. If you set one to 24H and the other is then used to program it, it will work as expected. That's why I suggest setting one of them to 24H (not both). You can of course connect them in parallel (so that either could fire up the boiler). In which case you'd set one to permanently off and use the other to control the "true pattern" of on/off.

PM's are fine, if it's generic then best put a post here as it'll get help from whoever is around and others will see it when they research problems.

For others benefit, the programmable stats are just stats with built in time periods, they don't send any temp info to the boiler (as I'm sure you're aware). The water temp from the boiler is set at the boiler (and controlled by the boiler PCB logic).

 

[chris murphy]

Hello topquark",

I can see what You are saying - Because I would ONLY be using the Programmable Room Thermostat to Control the Temperature of My Home it would ALWAYS have a Setting for ALL Time periods - Without Me having mentioned this [and My NOT having looked at the Horstmann Setting Instructions since You mentioned this] I was wondering what You meant - Now I know.

It was Definitely correct to mention this - as other People might get very confused if they tried to use one of these Programmable Room Thermostats without realising what You have stated.

In My case I will have ALL Time Periods of the Days `Set` with a Temperature - So when the Programmer turns ON the Boiler and Pump on a Timed OR Constant Setting [ via the Programmable Room Thermostat] - The Programmable Room Thermostat will Always be `Calling for Heat` [Unless the Temperature Setting is Low enough to be already`Satisfied`]

Wired as We have discussed - The Programmer will Turn On the Boiler and Pump IF the Programmable Room Thermostat is `Calling for Heat` There will ALWAYS be a Temperature Setting on the Thermostat NO `Off Periods`.

Whatever the Programmable Room Thermostat is `Showing` / Set At will not matter IF the Heating System is OFF at the Programmer because the Switched Live from the Programmer TO the Programmable Room Thermostat will NOT be Switched On.

When the Programmer Switches ON the Heating System the Programmable Room Thermostat [If Calling for Heat] will allow Power to the Boiler and Pump and Turn the Boiler and Pump`On / Off` at whatever Temperature Setting is for that particular Time period.


FOR OTHER READERS THIS IS PURELY HOW I WANT TO OPERATE MY HEATING SYSTEM - ON A TEMPORARY BASIS I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS METHOD OF WIRING OR `CONTROL` OF OTHER HEATING SYSTEMS - MY CIRCUMSTANCES HAVE DICTATED THIS - PLEASE READ MY ORIGINAL POST ABOUT THIS MATTER.

Most Modern Boilers would NOT be suitable to use a Thermostat which is wired in this way as they would require a Pump Over-Run which disipates Heat from the Boiler Heat Exchanger after the Burners stop firing.


Because this method of Settings was always my intention - I did NOT even think about any other possible problems for other People wanting to Operate their Heating Systems in a different way.

"Thanks Again topquark" - This is EXACTLY WHY I like to Liaise with Experts such as Yourself - What You mentioned would NOT be a Problem for the way that My Heating will be `Set` - But could easily be a problem for others.


Chris

 

[alarm man]

you could ask some of the sparks you gave work to help you out.

 

[chris murphy]

"Hello alarm man",

When I wrote My VERY Long Original Post describing My present circumstances I mentioned that since I Injured my Back the Electrician that used to wire up My Heating Systems went Traveling Abroad.

The exact circumstances of the Electrician who did all of the wiring of My Systems during a period of about the last 5 Years is that nearly All of My Work used to come from One Small Building Contractor - He did Only refurbishments of existing Buildings - primarily Flats - and Worked almost exclusively for a very Large Housing Association / Property Management Agents.

Because of the requirement for ALL Electrical Systems / Work carried out to be Tested and Certified to the Client - EVERYTHING Electrical that was Installed / Altered / Existing & Tested had to be Certified by the SAME Electrical Contractor / Electrician Including the Electrical Work on My Heating Systems - Which as most of the Properties were Flats were of the Combination Boiler type.

This ONE Contractor / Electrician Certification on each Contract was stipulated by the Client.

The Builder - who was a Life Long Friend of mine Died of Cancer - Because He was in Total Control of his Company - Basically a Gang of 8 Tradesmen When He died the Company was Finished - No-One else had the Business Acumen and all round Building Regulations Knowledge to carry on running the Company - It was not a Saleable Business and My Friends Wife wanted nothing to do with the Company after His Death.

The Electrician had to go and Work for a Company - But He still found time to Wire Up My Heating Systems.

A short while after I injured My Back the Electrician decided to go Traveling Abroad - He is a Young Man and wanted to see more of the World.

As He was the Electrician who did MY System Wiring for about 5 Years I do not have anyone to `Call On` to help Me with this.

Sorry that this is Very Long Winded - But in order to Reply to Your comment I had to explain the circumstances.


Thanks for your Interest.


Chris

 

[alarm man]

"Hello alarm man",

When I wrote My VERY Long Original Post describing My present circumstances I mentioned that since I Injured my Back the Electrician that used to wire up My Heating Systems went Traveling Abroad.

The exact circumstances of the Electrician who did all of the wiring of My Systems during a period of about the last 5 Years is that nearly All of My Work used to come from One Small Building Contractor - He did Only refurbishments of existing Buildings - primarily Flats - and Worked almost exclusively for a very Large Housing Association / Property Management Agents.

Because of the requirement for ALL Electrical Systems / Work carried out to be Tested and Certified to the Client - EVERYTHING Electrical that was Installed / Altered / Existing & Tested had to be Certified by the SAME Electrical Contractor / Electrician Including the Electrical Work on My Heating Systems - Which as most of the Properties were Flats were of the Combination Boiler type.

This ONE Contractor / Electrician Certification on each Contract was stipulated by the Client.

The Builder - who was a Life Long Friend of mine Died of Cancer - Because He was in Total Control of his Company - Basically a Gang of 8 Tradesmen When He died the Company was Finished - No-One else had the Business Acumen and all round Building Regulations Knowledge to carry on running the Company - It was not a Saleable Business and My Friends Wife wanted nothing to do with the Company after His Death.

The Electrician had to go and Work for a Company - But He still found time to Wire Up My Heating Systems.

A short while after I injured My Back the Electrician decided to go Traveling Abroad - He is a Young Man and wanted to see more of the World.

As He was the Electrician who did MY System Wiring for about 5 Years I do not have anyone to `Call On` to help Me with this.

Sorry that this is Very Long Winded - But in order to Reply to Your comment I had to explain the circumstances.


Thanks for your Interest.


Chris

man you have bad luck.i cant help.but if you ever need a bank account to send some money too,im ya man..i dont care if its from nigeria either,im cool..

 

[chris murphy]

"Hello alarm man",

I am still getting the Feeling that You don`t believe what I am Writing about My Circumstances ??

It is something to do with your mention of Nigeria / Bank Account etc - Where one of the Frauds originate regarding asking People for Their Bank Account Details - The requests being Totally Untrustworthy.

This and the comment about Your Daughter being a Better Liar - Words to that effect.

Am I Wrong about what I am `Sensing` about Your comments ??

Chris

 

[alarm man]

"Hello alarm man",

I am still getting the Feeling that You don`t believe what I am Writing about My Circumstances ??

It is something to do with your mention of Nigeria / Bank Account etc - Where one of the Frauds originate regarding asking People for Their Bank Account Details - The requests being Totally Untrustworthy.

This and the comment about Your Daughter being a Better Liar - Words to that effect.

Am I Wrong about what I am `Sensing` about Your comments ??

Chris

aye youre a chancer,id guess your not a heating engineer,your not disabled,but you have taken on a job you cant do,if im wrong i'll show my --- in fenwicks window..

 

[chris murphy]

alarm man - No-One would EVER want to Wire Up a Programmable Room Thermostat in the way that I have asked about - Unless they had the same circumstances with the System not having any Zone Valves - It is because this method is so unusual that I have had to Ask for Electrical Expert Advice.

I am a Plumbing - Heating and Gas Installer - Qualified and Registered where appropriate - Gas Safe and CORGI Competent Persons Defined Scope - Electrics for Heating Systems etc.

EVERYTHING that I Wrote is the TRUTH !


I would like to know what caused You to read my explanation of circumstances and DECIDE what You have stated about Me ? - WHY did You decide that it is not Truthful ? - Are You not aware that People can have `Disasters` in their lives ?? - I have had one regarding My Back Injury - Which by the way I may NEVER recover from !

When People have NO Alternative they sometimes Ask for Help / Information on a Forum.

Do You imagine that I would Humiliate Myself in Writing by explaining All that I wrote - And that it is not factual / True ?


So much for the `Banter` on here.


Chris

 

[chris murphy]

"Hello All",

I thought that You should know this - alarm man WAS directing His comment at Me [`10 Year old Daughter tells better Lies`] - He has Abused Me on the Other `Thread` - regarding the Wiring of the Programmable Room Thermostat - Calling Me a `Chancer` and stating that I am NOT a Heating Engineer and that I am NOT `Disabled` - and that I have probably taken on a Job that I could not handle.

ALL of this has been DECIDED by this Person after reading what I Wrote about My Circumstances - which I Wrote to Explain WHY I Needed Help.

I felt that I had to explain WHY My Heating System had to be Re-Piped as I had to do - I.E. without the Zone Valves - I had to explain WHY I could NOT carry out a COMPLETE Pipework configuration of the Zone Valves - Pump etc. - I could NOT do this because of My SEVERE Back Injury.

I explained that I was Trained and Registered for Wiring related to Heating Systems under the CORGI Defined Scope Scheme in order that the Electrical Professionals on here would feel that they WERE able to give Me advice on My Enquiry and that I was NOT a `DIYer` - As quite correctly People who have NOT received ANY Training and are NOT Registered to carry out Electrical Work should NOT be doing so - with the exception of changing Light Fittings - Switches - Socket Outlets etc.


Although I know that one will always come across People like `alarm man` on Forums I am VERY Surprised to note that He is a `Long Standing Member` - I wonder what other INSULTS He has written to others on here ?

Does He read Peoples Posts / Requests for Help and formulate a Fantasy Opinion of them from what they Write ? - In MY case Disbelieving EVERYTHING that I Wrote ! - And then ABUSING Me !

I thought that the Gentlemen on here should be told about His RIDICULOUS - INSULTING Comments.


"Thank You very much again topquark" - For Your Help with My Enquiry - I really appreciate Your Time and Expertise while corresponding with Me.


Chris

 

[alarm man]

"Hello All",

I thought that You should know this - alarm man WAS directing His comment at Me [`10 Year old Daughter tells better Lies`] - He has Abused Me on the Other `Thread` - regarding the Wiring of the Programmable Room Thermostat - Calling Me a `Chancer` and stating that I am NOT a Heating Engineer and that I am NOT `Disabled` - and that I have probably taken on a Job that I could not handle.

ALL of this has been DECIDED by this Person after reading what I Wrote about My Circumstances - which I Wrote to Explain WHY I Needed Help.

I felt that I had to explain WHY My Heating System had to be Re-Piped as I had to do - I.E. without the Zone Valves - I had to explain WHY I could NOT carry out a COMPLETE Pipework configuration of the Zone Valves - Pump etc. - I could NOT do this because of My SEVERE Back Injury.

I explained that I was Trained and Registered for Wiring related to Heating Systems under the CORGI Defined Scope Scheme in order that the Electrical Professionals on here would feel that they WERE able to give Me advice on My Enquiry and that I was NOT a `DIYer` - As quite correctly People who have NOT received ANY Training and are NOT Registered to carry out Electrical Work should NOT be doing so - with the exception of changing Light Fittings - Switches - Socket Outlets etc.


Although I know that one will always come across People like `alarm man` on Forums I am VERY Surprised to note that He is a `Long Standing Member` - I wonder what other INSULTS He has written to others on here ?

Does He read Peoples Posts / Requests for Help and formulate a Fantasy Opinion of them from what they Write ? - In MY case Disbelieving EVERYTHING that I Wrote ! - And then ABUSING Me !

I thought that the Gentlemen on here should be told about His RIDICULOUS - INSULTING Comments.


"Thank You very much again topquark" - For Your Help with My Enquiry - I really appreciate Your Time and Expertise while corresponding with Me.


Chris

abuse?..that wasnt abuse,it was an opinion ...my therapist would agree it wasnt abuse..

 

[alarm man]

and for someone who can do great harm just getting dressed,you do some typing..thats an opinion as well..

 

[chris murphy]

I Type these Posts lying down on My Bed - As I CANNOT Sit Down - I do NOT put Myself into the position of getting Dressed when I don`t have to - as I COULD `Hurt Myself` BADLY while Dressing.

At present I am HAVING TO Lay Down Day & Night - Lying Down 24 Hours a Day.

My Posts ARE Long - I try to give as much Detail as I feel is necessary - Brief Posts often cause there to be more Questions about exactly what is meant - I TRY to Explain All Aspects of what I am Enquiring about and WHY.

Chris