Hypothetical question

[jdd]

If you had a steel framed building with the electrical service at one end and the gas/water service at the other end. Would it be possible to bond the steel as normal, but then just bond the gas/water service straight to the steel work, instead of taking back to the MET.

 

[JD6400]

I believe that would be a no !

 

[Johnuk]

no u can not

 

[nickblake]

if you went from the met to the steel then gas then water with out cutting the cable so it was a continuous piece then it would be ok

 

[jdd]

What if the steel was used as the means of earthing?

 

[telectrix]

think OP meant could he go from MET to local structural steel, then use that steel to extend bonding t#other end of building, then tap onto gas and water. i think that's a no-no due to the resistance of the steel, possible corrosion, and a few others i can't think of. it's saturday and well past beer o'clock.

 

[jdd]

Mmmmmmmmm... Thanks for the info. Purely hypothetical.

 

[Sparkystu79]

I believe this is permitted, don't know the regs or any particular conditions which have to be met but when I worked for my old company there was certain occasions when this was done on large steel frame structures.

 

[jdd]

I seem to have read something similar, but it involved the structural steel being used as the means of the earthing (eg. steel being used as a big earth rod.)

 

[Guest123]

Yes you can.

543.2.1 refers.

There are considerations to made though, see the above reg.

 

[MarkieSparkie]

Extraneous-conductive-part(s) (your buildings steel frame work) may be used as productive conductor(s) providing the conditions of BS7671:2008 Amt 1:2011, 543.2.6 are met. This is quite commonly applied in both commercial and industrial installations, using building structural steel and other extraneous conductive parts too reduce the amount of green/yellow bonding conductor that needs to be run.

 

[Knobhead]

Never had a problem bonding to this little lot
View attachment 12940
Your MFT wouldn't even give a reading for the earth retutrn path. We used a Ductor to test continuity .0005 ohm would be normal.
Addional CPC's weren't entertained.

PS my workshop is in the foreground
View attachment 12941

 

[Dean Williams]

in my last company we always did it like this, especially in very large factories.

 

[Silly Sausage]

View attachment 12940


PS my workshop is in the foreground

You had a mobile workshop, genius, drive it to where ever you need it.

 

[Knobhead]

Great for carrying tools around but not practical, it wouldn’t fit in the lifts!

For working on the quarry navies we had a mobile workshop in the back of a 5 ton Tames Trader wagon. It could be linked up to the 3.3KV or 440V as available.

The nearest brick building was my workshop. A no go area unless you were invited in.

 

[Knobhead]

What's with the new avatare.

Your flattened ugly mug looked better.

 

[Silly Sausage]

It's one of my favourite pinball back glasses from the golden era of 70s pinball artwork.
I'll reinstate the old mush if you really want, too wrecked at the moment.

 

[Knobhead]

I got told off for changing my avatar.

It’s part of you on the board.

 

[Silly Sausage]

I got told off for changing my avatar.

I vaguely remember that, (the crap that sticks in mind???)
Can't see yours properly, full pic please.

It’s part of you on the board.

If I can find my camera, a full frontal nude for my next av

 

[Knobhead]

All Mod's be on allert!

Archy in th buff! YouK!!!! mg_smile:

 

[Knobhead]

Full avatar, a Schrage motor.
To this day I’m still not sure how they work. Only ever seen them on German printing presses. The speed is varied by the brushes being moved further apart. So you would have a motor controlling the speed of a motor.
Weird things! Like me before you get your oar in!


View attachment 12944

 

[Silly Sausage]

All Mod's be on allert!

Archy in th buff! YouK!!!! mg_smile:

Laugh away you old fart, imagine your Calafornian Stud with a 10 inch rod, then think of a 52 year old Manc with an MFT slung over his shoulder...reasonable comparison.

 

[Knobhead]

Manc old git
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]Managed File Transfer
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Marriage and Family Therapy
Multiple Familial Trichoepithelioma

Do I need to continue?

PS I came from near Manchester

 

[Silly Sausage]

Full avatar, a Schrage motor.
To this day I’m still not sure how they work. Only ever seen them on German printing presses. The speed is varied by the brushes being moved further apart. So you would have a motor controlling the speed of a motor.
Weird things! Like me before you get your oar in!


View attachment 12944

Interesting object!?!

You really should try 3d AutoCad, you've got the basics.
As an engineer of your years I should imagine you've got the spacial awareness to stroll this.

Just tried putting up some 3D images but failed.

 

[Knobhead]

Interesting object!?!

You really should try 3d AutoCad, you've got the basics.
As an engineer of your years I should imagine you've got the spacial awareness to stroll this.

Just tried putting up some 3D images but failed.

PM me please

 

[Silly Sausage]

I've just managed to put 1 image up. Check the pics @ bottom.
3D is a piece of the .... I can scan my notes if you want.

 

[Engineer54]

Getting back to the original question, No idea why there are some here, that think a steel framed building that's been bonded and probably providing a pretty decent earth in it's own right, can't act as a bonding conductor. Whole factories use the steel framing of steel framed structures as it's bonding medium, for all of the factory plant and it's fixed equipment... You would need to install a huge copper conductor to match the volume and paths of conductivity that the steelwork will provide!! lol!!

 

[beatboaby924y]

Yes this would be allowed and is common practice.

 

[jarmez]

No I would'nt. I would price accordingly to run the bond to the gas and water.

 

[Engineer54]

No I wouldn't. I would price accordingly to run the bond to the gas and water.

You must be very naive if you are thinking that the mass of steel in a steel framed building isn't going to be superior, than your 10mm or whatever bonding conductor!! ...God knows what sort of money you'll be asking for all that cable, cable fixing and/or containment!! lol!!

 

[Dean Williams]

i've installed it using the steel frame and i've seen countless steel frame factories new and old wired the same way.

 

[jarmez]

Been doing this for 28 years on large construction sites gas and water still bonded so i am not naive but you obviously think you know it all lol

 

[Deleted member 26818]

If you had a steel framed building with the electrical service at one end and the gas/water service at the other end. Would it be possible to bond the steel as normal, but then just bond the gas/water service straight to the steel work, instead of taking back to the MET.

Yes that would be acceptable.

 

[Engineer54]

Been doing this for 28 years on large construction sites gas and water still bonded so i am not naive but you obviously think you know it all lol

Well i obviously know a bit more than you after your 28 years!!

Perhaps you can explain why you would pull a separate bonding conductor over several tens of metres of a steel framed building, rather than using the mass of steelwork that's already bonded to the MET??

 

[johnboy6083]

I agree, use the steel as a bonding conductor. If you fancy, you could use it as a common CPC too!

 

[SYKRAPS]

I agree, use the steel as a bonding conductor. If you fancy, you could use it as a common CPC too!

Like with galv conduit or trunking systems?

 

[Engineer54]

I agree, use the steel as a bonding conductor. If you fancy, you could use it as a common CPC too!

Well, it certainly reinforces any metallic containment systems attached to the building!! lol!!