Hyundai or Sanyo?

[thegreenman]

I have had a few quotes for a PV install, and the one that looks the best value to the untrained eye is this one.
Roof pitch 40 degrees
Roof 1 faces south east
Roof 2 faces South west and has some shade from a gable end in the early morning, reducing its useful area.
Both are slate roofs so ideally we wanted black panels

Proposing Hyundai HIS250W panels, 10 on roof 1 and 6 on roof 2
1 x powerone 3.6 G83/1 inverter
Schuco mounting system
Total install cost £10640

For comparison they also included a Sanro system with
sanyo HIT H250E01 9 panels on roof1, 7 on roof 2
1 x powerone 3.6 G83/1 inverter
Schuco mounting system
Total install cost £12810

We have also had a quote of £12835 for 16 LG250Wp panels with an SMA inverter

The Hyundai price looks very good to me, are these decent panels, being of a cynical nature, I want the payback time to be as short as possible before someone finds a way of wriggling out of the FIT contract

all comments welcome

TIA

 

[and]

Hi, I am in a similar position of looking to have a 4kW system installed and undecided about the panels. A forum member kindly ran some panels through PV SOL software to give figures of likely output for various 250W rated panels, which are figures specific to my roof: 35 degree pitch, SSE orientation and 2x8 rows of panels in portrait, almost zero shading.

From these figures I am getting some quotes for the LG panels after initially favouring the Hyundai as an alternative to the unavilable Suntech panels.

Price of the panels from suppliers on the internet from cheapest to most expensive: Suntech, Hyundai, LG,Samsung, Sharp, Sanyo. I assume various installers get various panels at varying prices from their respective suppliers, so this list is only indicative at best.

I have a Hyundai + Power One 3.6 quote similar to yours.
Sanyo + SMA 3800, similar price to your Sanyo quote.
I've not had a quote yet for LG panels.

Sanyo HiT 250 - 3654kWh
Suntech STP250S - 3601kWh
LG 250 S1C - 3582kWh
Samsung LPC 247SM - 3565kWh
Hyundai HiS S250MG - 3324kWh
Sharp NU R250J5 - 3323kWh

Hope that is helpful ...

 

[SolarCity]

The prices you have been quoted look excellent, especially considering the two roof areas and the fact that they are slate roofs.

I think the Sanyo option looks particularly cheap.

As a side note, there are many different methods of installing panels on slate roofs and I'd urge you to read some of the threads on this forum and asking your installer which method he intends to adopt.

 

[Graeme Moo]

Sanyo HiT everytime, These panels are a Monochrystaline/thin film hybrid. The Monochrystaline will give you best results during sunny days, thin film gives best results during cloudy days (the Uk has plenty of these). For quickest payback use Sanyo.

 

[cjapeterborough]

Based on the above calculations and assuming the Sanyo's overperform by 10% (which I personally find hard to believe) it would
take 15 years to recover the additional cost differential versus the Hyundia's

ie 330kwh per annum =£147 per fit differential into £2170 is 15 years

So no the Sanyo's are certainly not the quickest pay back using the above example.

 

[Matt_M]

But you haven't considered inflation on the FIT and energy prices rising

 

[cjapeterborough]

But you haven't considered inflation on the FIT and energy prices rising

Thats irrelevant as who knows what the government will do in the future or indeed what will happen to inflation.
Even so that may reduce the amount of time you claw back the initial cost differential,assuming
the Sanyo panels will produce a 10% performance differential throughout the lifetime of the product?

I dont think so........there certainly isnt any data around to support this because we wont know until 2036
and many of the folk that are buying them wont be around to even care

The OP makes that exact point and the bottom line is that £2170 stays in your pocket.

If I model the systems through SMA there is no where near the performance differentials listed above and historical
data based on real like systems prove the same.

Now are Sanyo panels easier to sell?
-Probably due to market share and coverage

Do Sanyo panels offer higher margins?
-they always seem the most expensive

Are Sanyo panels quality products that perform?
Yes for sure and they are smaller............. but a 250W panel is a 250W panel.

There are plenty of MCS approved panels to choose from.

 

[budwozza]

A 250w panel is indeed a 250w panel - BUT only in ideal conditions and how often does that happen? The power rating is the minimum figure that the panel will produce in ideal conditions, but actual output varies a great deal amongst panel brands.

I had 16 Sanyo 250w panels fitted (nearly 6 weeks ago) and they are performing well over the estimates from the installer and PVGIS and by comparing them to other 16 panel (4KW) systems.

As of yesterday I have produced 105% of my monthly target, with a few days left to go (target 192 kw - actual 202 kw) see here : Wozza 4.000kW
The performance in low light does seem very good.

SMA Sunny design does not take different actual panel outputs into account - run a 16 panel Sharp system against a 16 panel Sanyo system - virtually identical ouputs - but in reality Sanyos output more.

 

[cjapeterborough]

I prefer to look at real life data comparisons over 1 or 2 years not a few days or weeks.
If you look at the uksolarcasestudy site there is a set of Sanyo's compared with quite
a few others and they are all more or less the same imho.

I have a relatively ordinary 4kw Schuco system on a East facing roof which has produced 1750KWh so far
since install in late June and output for Oct is 242KWh.(you can guess my location).

If targets are set low then you will always beat them btw...

The main difference is the price paid for these systems,the geographical location and the level of backup
and support(when needed) from the supplier/installer.

 

[SolarCity]

If I model the systems through SMA there is no where near the performance differentials listed above .

That is because SMA's Sunny Design isn't intended to give you accurate yield data. It is simply a design tool for matching up array's to their own range of inverters.

 

[SolarCity]

Yes for sure and they are smaller............. but a 250W panel is a 250W panel.

Not so. They are only comparable under Standard Test Conditions. Throw temperature and light conditions into the equation and things start looking very different.

 

[thegreenman]

Thanks to everyone whose commented so far. I am leaning toward Hyundai, but have also noted that they have quoted for 16 x Schott performa poly 240W. Is there any chance someone could run the three options through PV-S0L.
Details are
Roof pitch 40 degrees
Roof 1 faces south east
Roof 2 faces South west and has some shade from a gable end in the early morning, reducing its useful area.
Location: Doset

option 1.
Hyundai HIS250W panels, 10 on roof 1 in 2 rows of 5 landscape.
6 on roof 2 in 2 rows of 3, landscape
1 x powerone 3.6 G83/1 inverter

option 2
Schott performa poly 240Wpanels,
10 on roof 1 in 2 rows of 5 landscape.
6 on roof 2 in 2 rows of 3, landscape
1 x powerone 3.6 G83/1 inverter

option 3
sanyo HIT H250E01
9 on roof 1 in portrait.
7 on roof 2 in portrait
1 x powerone 3.6 G83/1 inverter

Also, would it make a big difference if we made the Hyundai and Schot arrays the same on each roof, i.e. 2 rows of 4 in landscape, I think that would look better and would definately fit the roof space. 2 rows of 5 looks a bit tight to my untrained eye ( using scaled house elevation drawings )

Many thanks

 

[SolarCity]

Okay, sorry about the delay but I've run some figures for you.

I haven't factored the shading in but I get the following results for you, based on location: Bournemouth.

16 Hyundai 250w - 3,718kWh
16 Schott 240w - 3,571kWh
16 Sanyo 250w - 4,013kWh

for an added bonus, 17 Linuo 235w - 4,052kWh

 

[thegreenman]

Okay, sorry about the delay but I've run some figures for you.

I haven't factored the shading in but I get the following results for you, based on location: Bournemouth.

16 Hyundai 250w - 3,718kWh
16 Schott 240w - 3,571kWh
16 Sanyo 250w - 4,013kWh

for an added bonus, 17 Linuo 235w - 4,052kWh

BiggSolar
I can't beleive that you found the time to do that given the panic over Mondays announcement. I have arranged a meeting for next week with my prefered installer and I think the only question will be 'What can you put on my roof in time?" What a shambles this has turned out to be. In my original post I did say I was concerned that they may make changes to the tariff for existing customers, and wanted to get my money back ASAP. I noticed a section in yesterdays leaked document that said the Government has decided not to make retrospective changes for the duration of this parliment. I would interpret that to mean that they have considered reducing the FIT for existing contracts and will certainly consider it again in the future.

I really feel for you guys at the moment

 

[jupestar]

I wouldn't read too much into the computer data to be honest, it's good for a guide but biggssolar brought up the most important question how are they going to install on the slate?
Also the strength of the roof.
Also how they are going to configure the two surfaces. Dc part and inverter compatiblity.

In terms of panel it's not about what they do in test conditions it about how they are built the quality control that goes into the manufacturing The configuration, safety protection and installation that will determine the payback time.



Honestly rather than worrying about the panels, these are the questions you should be asking. Especially the slate...