Improving control, oil boiler C Plan

[EricMark]

At the moment it depends on the weather on how well the central heating works, the main problem is the Nest Gen 3 thermostat only measures the temperature in the hall, and it turns off boiler some times when living room not warm enough, but can't move Nest into living room, as one there is also an open fire, and two no connection to the flat underneath main house where the boiler is to power the thermostat, that only goes to hall.

I want all powered by either the FCU in the flat what is battery backed, or batteries.

So looking at a number of options.
1) Temperature sensors but as yet only released in USA.
2) Some thing which links to existing TRV heads, using Energenie and Kasa in living room (two radiators).
3) Second thermostat in parallel

Number 3 seems most likely, clearly needs to be wireless, and if it can connect to a TRV then that's a bonus, and if also connects to internet even better. The Energenie wall thermostat is not wireless, and found a Tapo wall thermostat, but no one seems to sell them, Tapo and Kasa are both TP-Link and I am seeing more and more integration between the two.

Hive seems a cheap thermostat and if it works with my existing zigbee hub great, but if not likely worth spending a little extra for Wiser, likely only need one TRV to link to it, so swapping wife's eQ-3 TRV head for a linked one in her bedroom is not that expensive and the old programmable thermostat can be used in the flat.

But don't want to play in Winter, if anything goes wrong want it to go wrong in the summer, so open to suggestions as to how to keep boiler running when living room cool.

 

[ferg]

Honeywell wireless TRV's ?
It can start to get a bit pricey though once you add up the cost of all the required kit.

 

[freddo]

Honeywell wireless TRV's ?
It can start to get a bit pricey though once you add up the cost of all the required kit.

I have the Honeywell Evohome system installed here and it's great, saves a lot on gas compared to when I had 1 stat in the hall. The user interface is very well designed and intuitive. I highly recommend it, far better than Nest or HIve etc. if you don't mind the initial cost.

 

[James]

I have the Honeywell Evohome system installed here and it's great, saves a lot on gas compared to when I had 1 stat in the hall. The user interface is very well designed and intuitive. I highly recommend it, far better than Nest or HIve etc. if you don't mind the initial cost.

I have a nest stat, it is good but has its limitations.
if and when I change it, the Honeywell system is the one I have planned for my own home.

 

[EricMark]

I also have Nest Gen 3, however it does not connect to the TRV's, it should have done, it seems the same TRV used with Energenie's own wall thermostat would fire the boiler if current under target, however I don't have option of hard wired, and setting the wall thermostat is suppose to set TRV's to the same temperature. Why? The whole point of the TRV being programmable is I can set each room independently, tried with Nest and yes setting the Nest with the Nest app would auto set the TRV as well, however when Nest schedule re-set the temperature, the TRV did not follow it, so all rather pointless.

I removed the pairing so I can now adjust each room independently, however clearly the TRV can't heat the room if boiler not running.

I highly recommend it, far better than Nest or HIve etc.

I except Evo home is better than Nest, but with a non modulating boiler why is it better than Hive? I was looking at Hive and Drayton Wiser as in both cases the TRV will tell the wall thermostat to fire the boiler, however Hive it seems has a limit of 22 degs C, after which it will not accept demands for heat.

But the real point is quality of the TRV heads, I now have three makes of programmable TRV heads and each one is different. Energenie says it has two temperature sensors one for air and one for water so it can compensate for heat direct from radiator. It also has geofencing using IFTTT. The eQ-3 has window open function to turn off radiator when it cools fast for set time, so when unloading shopping from the car, it will auto turn off while we are unloading, and the Kasa has a predictive function so it works out how long it takes to heat room so time set is when room is warm for, not when it starts heating the room, it also has a display in the app to show how it preformed over the day.

However non connect to my wall thermostat so can't turn boiler on. Of the three the Kasa I think is the best, but the wall thermostat which goes with it, needs to be hard wired, since boiler is in the flat under the house, the second thermostat needs to be wireless. Hence looking at Hive and Wiser as both have wireless connection to their bases.

But maybe should look at Evohome again, however a quick look and it seems far more expensive for what I would need, as it does not it seems include a wall thermostat, the TRV's in living room and wife's bedroom would need changing, but with Hive and wiser only need new TRV for wife's bedroom, the wall thermostat in living room would fire boiler when required to heat living room.

At the moment wiser seems top of list. As it seems the TRV's are better.

 

[DPG]

I also have Nest Gen 3, however it does not connect to the TRV's, it should have done, it seems the same TRV used with Energenie's own wall thermostat would fire the boiler if current under target, however I don't have option of hard wired, and setting the wall thermostat is suppose to set TRV's to the same temperature. Why? The whole point of the TRV being programmable is I can set each room independently, tried with Nest and yes setting the Nest with the Nest app would auto set the TRV as well, however when Nest schedule re-set the temperature, the TRV did not follow it, so all rather pointless.

I removed the pairing so I can now adjust each room independently, however clearly the TRV can't heat the room if boiler not running.


I except Evo home is better than Nest, but with a non modulating boiler why is it better than Hive? I was looking at Hive and Drayton Wiser as in both cases the TRV will tell the wall thermostat to fire the boiler, however Hive it seems has a limit of 22 degs C, after which it will not accept demands for heat.

But the real point is quality of the TRV heads, I now have three makes of programmable TRV heads and each one is different. Energenie says it has two temperature sensors one for air and one for water so it can compensate for heat direct from radiator. It also has geofencing using IFTTT. The eQ-3 has window open function to turn off radiator when it cools fast for set time, so when unloading shopping from the car, it will auto turn off while we are unloading, and the Kasa has a predictive function so it works out how long it takes to heat room so time set is when room is warm for, not when it starts heating the room, it also has a display in the app to show how it preformed over the day.

However non connect to my wall thermostat so can't turn boiler on. Of the three the Kasa I think is the best, but the wall thermostat which goes with it, needs to be hard wired, since boiler is in the flat under the house, the second thermostat needs to be wireless. Hence looking at Hive and Wiser as both have wireless connection to their bases.

But maybe should look at Evohome again, however a quick look and it seems far more expensive for what I would need, as it does not it seems include a wall thermostat, the TRV's in living room and wife's bedroom would need changing, but with Hive and wiser only need new TRV for wife's bedroom, the wall thermostat in living room would fire boiler when required to heat living room.

At the moment wiser seems top of list. As it seems the TRV's are better.

After reading lots of similar experiences from other people, I think I'm going to stick with my combi boiler with programmable thermostat, and normal (non electronic) TRVs.

I keep debating going down the evo/wifi TRV/etc route, bu nobody seems happy with the fully electronic systems despite often spending the thick end of a grand on them.

 

[freddo]

I just find evo easier to setup and operate than hive or nest, no weird faults either, it just works. It also has adaptive learning and pre-start, though I don't bother with that as this modern, insulated house heats quickly, and window open mode. I also like that once it is set you can just leave it alone, the house is at an even temperature now all the time (currently set to 13C) and it stays that way even if it is freezing outside. With the original setup the house was often cold in some rooms requiring the heating to be boosted. I tried adjusting the TRVs to balance it better but didn't get it working properly. The thermostat in the hall couldn't turn the heating on again if the heat left while going in and out of the back door in the lounge, leaving the lounge cold. I wouldn't want to go back to a single stat now.

It would be nice if I could use the opentherm receiver here but my boiler is too old, it has a modulating burner but to remotely control it needs a non standard Vaillant unit not available for the UK market. With the low temperatures I keep the house at here I could make good use of a modern boiler in condensing mode.

I've not tried electronic TRVs as separate parts so can't comment on that, only ever used them with complete systems.

One of the winning points with evohome is it will work fully stand alone, and doesn't require an internet connection or a smart phone or require the user to log in / sign up, to work or operate, I haven't had mine connected to the internet in over 5 years. All operations are carried out with the wall mount touch screen controller. I installed a nest thermostat last year? and couldn't complete the setup, or use the thing as the customers internet was currently not working and the nest refused to allow any further operation until it was connected to the internet!

Between Hive and Nest I'd go with Hive every time, Nest UK products always seem like an afterthought as the system was really designed for use in USA market.

I'm getting a bit behind the times though and didn't know the Nest 3 could connect with electronic TRVs.

 

[Simon47]

As a "temporary" measure I went down a slightly different route.
Nothing off the shelf appealed. In particular I wanted something with a good WAF (wife acceptance factor). Eventually I'll have provision for hard wiring - chasing in conduits etc. when decorating a room. In the meantime I twigged I could pair a wireless stat with two receivers. One receiver controlling the pump, the other controlling a thermo-hydraulic actuator on the radiator.

So each room has a stat (Salus RT510, usually plenty used on eBay)) which even SWMBO can cope with (she can hit the up button to turn it up and it resets itself at the next program step).
We have a thermal store & modulating pump so don't have to worry about minimum flow rates. With a boiler needing a minimum flow rate you'd need to consider what bypass arrangements you'd need.