Insulation.... dont you just love it !!!

[sythai]

Always seem to get these jobs in the summer.....

Got x 30 recessed downlights to first fix tomorrow, and they've only gone and now had the loft re-insulated first - 600mm stuff deep great !! (think my estimate may be going up slightly)

Couple of questions please:

1/ Any suggestions on the best way to cut out a hole in the insulation... normally just end up ripping a hole with my hand or is there a better neater way maybe ?

2/ Will be installing Halers LEDs (first time to use them, look like a quality bit of kit) which don't give of much heat, so would I be right in thinking that maybe the insulation might be able to go right over the top ? Dont like the idea of it, just a thought. Think I've seem some Aurora one's which you can do this with.

3/ Another option is use a downlight box/loft cap, never used them before. Just looking in the Denmans connector catalogue page 41, they got a 'Basics' one for £3.50 each (picture below. Anyone used these, any thoughts.

Many Thanks,

Sy

 

[nickblake]

Firstly i think you'll like the halers , i was well impressesed with them , they do get warm , and as they are electronic i would be inclined to use down lighter box as well just to give them some air flow , as for the loft insulation i just hate the stuff im amased its not been banned , what does amaze me though we have to do alsort of calculations to work out cable sizes to take into account insulation , i know we cant plan for the future but has any one thought of the effects on the cabling covering it all up with all this insulation

 

[act1988]

Well that's somthing I've been talking about for years.. Like you said when we are thinking about installing a new cable we are inclined to do all the calcs undress the sun.. But under the governments incentives to make homes more efficient you can get a grant to stuff as much of the stuff you possibly can in the loft not taking any care at all about the cables... Makes perfect sense to me..

 

[geoffa]

act1988,
......bet a naked sun looks hot

 

[malcolmsanford]

To be honest with domestic lighting normally on a 6amp protection device and 1.5mm T + E rated well over 15amp, I would not be that concerend about running it in insulation. Also be a very rare domestic lighting circuit that will not at some point be isolated in various sections 50% of the time, so I doubt if you will ever see 3amps on a circuit, at anyone time.

It will though perhaps mean the end of running loops in 1mm. Of course light circuits like all installations are changing, and with the fad of customers wanting to light a room with torch light, ciruits could develop a larger load demand, but hopfully with energy costs and the advent of LED lighting, downlighters may in the end be consigned to history as was the Sinclair C5.

 

[nickblake]

Agree malc i was looking at it on a more general basis Ie 9kw shower on a 6mm covered in 600mm insulation if you read the cable rating in the electricians guide to building regs you'd need a 16mm cable !! ,but me going off the topic again , i have to admit i never use 1mm breaks to easy for my liking always 1.5mm for lights for me synthai let us know how you get on with the halers like to here others opinions

 

[davelerave]

i wouldn't rip holes in the insulation anyhow


not familiar with that brand -but don't think regular gu10 led is a fire hazard without a box or 'f-capped' fitting


lamp life may be affected though

 

[giio]

i used to alway put clay plant pots upside down over the recessed lights in the loft. they have a wee breathing hole in the bottom too

insulation : a mask obviously, wear a long sleeved woolen pullover it catches the fibres,woolen hat and eye protection, silicone gloves ,long woolen socks and tape your trousers at the bottom, try not to sweat ha ha,

a bit uncomfortable but not as uncomfortable as mot wearing it,good luck

 

[Rikki Barrett]

I found the best way to cut a hole is lift the insulation where you need to cut and slide a piece of wood under it, get one of those stanleys with the long blades that you can snap little pieces off, pin the insulation with your hand and draw around it with your stanley, leaves a lovely clean cut, no loose hairs which you get when you tear it.

 

[SMB]

i used to alway put clay plant pots upside down over the recessed lights in the loft. they have a wee breathing hole in the bottom too

insulation : a mask obviously, wear a long sleeved woolen pullover it catches the fibres,woolen hat and eye protection, silicone gloves ,long woolen socks and tape your trousers at the bottom, try not to sweat ha ha,

a bit uncomfortable but not as uncomfortable as mot wearing it,good luck

Wow.....!

 

[mayfair]

Barrier cream seems to work ....................just dont touch your nose.

 

[SMB]

The really early 'insulation' is the worst.

I remember just watching the fibers float around in the air after moving it.

I learnt not to move it too much.







Those fibers that I have inhaled in the past are the last of my worries at present, because at the moment im smoking 40 a day (combined with at least 8 tins) and I keep putting my life at risk at sea.









Roll on death.

 

[sythai]

Thanks chaps for your replies..... think I'm going to give the boxes a try on top this time

 

[Dunc]

You'll have to do something to space the insulation away from the back of the fitting. Manufacturers instructions on the Halers state a 75mm gap must be maintained around the fitting when there is thermal insulation present. The boxes are a good bet as making gaps in the insulation contravenes Approved Document L (I believe).

 

[telectrix]

I found the best way to cut a hole is lift the insulation where you need to cut and slide a piece of wood under it, get one of those stanleys with the long blades that you can snap little pieces off, pin the insulation with your hand and draw around it with your stanley, leaves a lovely clean cut, no loose hairs which you get when you tear it.

i pull it up ad stuff it down towards the eaves. benefits in more than 1 way. a. the GU10's don't overheat. b. the small amount of heat escaping into the loft stops the pipes from freezing and bursting, thus saving the client far, far more ( on a plumber ) than he could hope to save in a lifetime through heat retention.