Intro - and immediate questions / thoughts

[Oldshape]

Hi gang,
Sorry for the massive 1st post. And hello!

I am just about to take possession of a house. I have a blank canvas for all work - the house was a council built old folks home but is now a "Change of use" category. I have no electric supply (Or water) but that is in hand. 4 bedrooms.
I will be doing the labour of the wiring etc. with final connections to the Consumer unit by a qualified professional. I have done a lot of wiring before (This is my 6th house) but never on this scale.
The Floors up and down are concrete. They will need a floating floor - which gives me easy runs to hide the cables.
Downstairs, I intend to have 5 ring mains. 1 for external socket, 1 for general, 1 for kitchen, 1 for utility, 1 for the boiler (Or can that boiler be a radial?)
Is the above overkill? As I have a blank canvas I may as well do it?
Upstairs, I intend to have 1 ring. Plus a ring or radial? to an immersion heater (As back-up to the boiler). Not intending to have electric showers but they will get their own circuit (Ring or Radial?)
Lighting - couple of questions......
Obviously I intend to have the upstairs and downstairs on separate circuits. Maybe add another one for exterior lights.
Due to the concrete floors and ceiling, I think it is easier to make a lighting ring to all the switches and take power from those up to the roses. It will be a lot less chasing out - or, I may have to put a false soundproof ceiling in anyway. Can that kind of circuit still be a radial?
I know the lighting can be a radial circuit, but by the time I'm on to my last light fitting I am only 3 metres from the consumer unit - so I may as well join it and make a ring?
The upstairs ceilings are normal plasterboard so I can wire the roses directly as normal - but I would prefer to wire the switches to match the downstairs lighting circuit. Or do you advise not?

 

[hightower]

Lot of questions in there, and inevitably someone is going to ask this, so I might as well:

Who is carrying out the work and what are their qualifications/experience?

 

[Wilko]

Hello and Welcome
Just my thoughts, but IMHO you don't need all those 32A rings. Work out what you need in the kitchen - but its probably one 2.5mm ring and 6mm radial for oven/hob. Don't forget a nice design for heat, smoke and CO alarms, possibly off own or a light circuit. Much easier if you get the appropriate cables in now .
As HT is saying, its best to link arms with an Electrician now so you can be a supervised person and they can feel more confident about the build.

 

[Spoon]

Have you not discussed this with your electrician?

 

[Oldshape]

Hi guys, I am linked up with a qual'd electrician (18 years exp.) and he is happy for me to do all the donkey work, he will ring it out and final connect to the CU / certify it. He will be able to see all the cables and wiring before I put the trunking/false flooring over it. I'll even leave the face plates unfastened if he wants - but he has seen my work before when I put a new ring in this house for a new kitchen. I just left him the tails of the ring to connect up to the CU.
I wanted all those rings downstairs for the convenience in addition to the safety - and as I have a blank canvas, why not? Utility will have washer, dryer, fridge and fridge freezer. The utility room is not next to the kitchen - it is about 6 metres away in fact. Kitchen will have Dishwasher, Fridge, cooker, hob (Induction), extractor hood. Plus sockets for M/w and kettle etc. In fact I may even put the cooker/hob/fan on its own, as those three will be working at the same time.

I didn't even consider Heat/Smoke CO system. Presently stand-alone in this house and my previous ones. I checked, it is regulation to have a hard-wired system in place. (Damn - here goes the money pit lol) As this is a "Change of use", all the regs must be as if a new build.
Any thoughts on the lighting circuits - live to switches etc?

 

[Oldshape]

Have you not discussed this with your electrician?

Only briefly, he is busy as hell so I don't like to disturb him. And 100 opinions from here is extremely valuable!

 

[hightower]

Nothing the matter with wiring the lighting feeds to the switches instead of the pendants. But I'd be inclined to go over these design questions with the electrician you have lined up, especially since he'll presumably be able to come and visit and talk you through your design queries.

 

[telectrix]

ARE YOU SURE ALL THEM RINGS WON'T USE SO MUCH CABLE THAT THE ISLE OF WIGHT SINKS?

 

[Oldshape]

ARE YOU SURE ALL THEM RINGS WON'T USE SO MUCH CABLE THAT THE ISLE OF WIGHT SINKS?

South of the isle is sinking, as is the whole of South England actually. Scotland is rising, the country is tipping. <Nerd mode off>
But my wiring will be good enough to survive these minor hiccups in Tectonic shifting, even if I cause it.

 

[Pete999]

Hi gang,
Sorry for the massive 1st post. And hello!

I am just about to take possession of a house. I have a blank canvas for all work - the house was a council built old folks home but is now a "Change of use" category. I have no electric supply (Or water) but that is in hand. 4 bedrooms.
I will be doing the labour of the wiring etc. with final connections to the Consumer unit by a qualified professional. I have done a lot of wiring before (This is my 6th house) but never on this scale.
The Floors up and down are concrete. They will need a floating floor - which gives me easy runs to hide the cables.
Downstairs, I intend to have 5 ring mains. 1 for external socket, 1 for general, 1 for kitchen, 1 for utility, 1 for the boiler (Or can that boiler be a radial?)
Is the above overkill? As I have a blank canvas I may as well do it?
Upstairs, I intend to have 1 ring. Plus a ring or radial? to an immersion heater (As back-up to the boiler). Not intending to have electric showers but they will get their own circuit (Ring or Radial?)
Lighting - couple of questions......
Obviously I intend to have the upstairs and downstairs on separate circuits. Maybe add another one for exterior lights.
Due to the concrete floors and ceiling, I think it is easier to make a lighting ring to all the switches and take power from those up to the roses. It will be a lot less chasing out - or, I may have to put a false soundproof ceiling in anyway. Can that kind of circuit still be a radial?
I know the lighting can be a radial circuit, but by the time I'm on to my last light fitting I am only 3 metres from the consumer unit - so I may as well join it and make a ring?
The upstairs ceilings are normal plasterboard so I can wire the roses directly as normal - but I would prefer to wire the switches to match the downstairs lighting circuit. Or do you advise not?

5 rfc downstairs?

 

[The Ghost]

I reckon your spark will say a few of those rings could be radials. The outside socket a spur or radial, you never know if you want to add lights outside? I personally would suggest conventional radial on lighting cct. You still have to run a wire to the rose anyway its just less cable. No internet. Speakers? Intelligent house? Radials instead of rings? It depends on what your spark is comfortable with I suppose. What about insulation, will you be putting any in. Sounds like a perfect place for underfloor heating? Alarm? fire burglar anyone? LED stuff? Two/three way light switches, sounds like a large place?

 

[Oldshape]

Hi,
LED stuff...you mean LED lighting? Only under the kitchen wall cupboards.
The only two way switch will be the HSL.

And yes, had words with another sparky. He likes my ideas of so many circuits, and yes the circuits going to individual items can be 6mm radials (Immersion or shower or boiler etc.). 2.5mm could be enough in some cases, but base it on future upgrades.
Burglar alarms are not needed so much on the Isle of Wight, but if they are part of the new regs I'll have to put one in. Probably linked with the smoke system anyway?
Smoke/heat alarm hard wired is now a part of the regs. As this is a "Change of use" the regs for new build apply.
Internet cabling will need to be put in, as the concrete flooring will kill off wireless, especially for important stuff like gaming.
I think I may put false ceilings downstairs anyway, so I'll have an inch or so of space to hide all my trunking.....which will be fastened by metal clips as per regs. Underfloor heating is not ideal for a Biomass (Wood pellet) boiler, it works but is not the best. no gas at property and will not be. No oil, unless I could bury the tank out of view. Electric heating too expensive to run. Considered an air system (Heat exchanger types) but the cost of making the place air tight etc. prevents that. Floor will be 50mm selotex or similar with boards on top then laminate. All wiring and plumbing will be in separate channels on the floor. Wood batons with plywood cap at the 50mm level to match the insulation height. These channels will be 8" wide so plenty of air gap. (But with so many circuits I doubt the cables will get even slightly warm). No insulation will be on top of the trunking areas. The upstairs ceilings are normal so I can wire as normal in the loft, although I will be making a safe "Pig trough" or boards at about waist height in the loft, so all the cables are well above the mass of insulation and can be easily seen. Feeds to roses can drop down from this, with wire netting cages over the roses.
Sparky also reminded me that all the "In built" appliances of kitchen must have a visible and clear isolation switch, the switch on the socket (Which is hidden behind cupboard) is not enough. So I will have a labelled switch bank to serve this, a bit ugly, but law is law. Fridge/Dishwasher/oven/hob/fan will be on it. One can't put them inside a cupboard because they will be obscured by yer conrnflakes. I mentioned this because I saw the question in another thread....which I now can't find.
Big place? Disregarding internal walls it is about 10 x 10 metres. So my "Common" ring downstairs is about 40m run out. Same upstairs plus the climb.

Upstairs does not need an insulation on the floor. It is concrete. I'd like anyones innovative ideas for hiding the ring main (And plumbing) along the floor. Chasing out a long channel behind the skirt will affect the structural integrity I think.

 

[Andy78]

If the electrician is to be connecting, testing, and signing off all of this work, honestly, your questions are best directed at him.

It can avoid any situations where you take advice from the internet and your electrician disagrees and wants it doing again.

 

[westward10]

If the electrician is to be connecting, testing, and signing off all of this work, honestly, your questions are best directed at him.

It can avoid any situations where you take advice from the internet and your electrician disagrees and wants it doing again.

Not sure how he can sign any of it off if he is just connecting the CU. Can't provide Installation Cert surely.

 

[Octopus]

I didn't even consider Heat/Smoke CO system. Presently stand-alone in this house and my previous ones. I checked, it is regulation to have a hard-wired system in place. (Damn - here goes the money pit lol) As this is a "Change of use", all the regs must be as if a new build.
Any thoughts on the lighting circuits - live to switches etc?

I'm VERY surprised your "spark" didn't point this out - what about CAT5, TV points, etc etc