is this company breaking the law?

[sparkywag]

Firstly, please excuse my ignorance, but i'm not a sparks so will prob be using the wrong terminology etc. Sorry!
My husband starting work recently for a company that installs heaters. Originally, they were supplied with a plug, but apparently as time has gone on, they needed a spur installing and connecting that way.
Obviously, that is no problem for my hubby The first few jobs he went to, he had to fit spurs and connect the heaters etc then he got told he had to upgrade a consumer unit fit extra sockets in the houses, then another job he was told to break the seals at the mains as it needed connecting to the economy 7 or something. The last job he went to, he tested the circuits before he started and got bad readings so called the team leader as in his opinion the electrics wanted condemning- the team leader wasn't interested and told him to again break the seals and fit the heaters.
My husband was reluctant to do this as he was under the impression that it is illegal to break the seals- is this correct? Is it something that people do get prosecuted for? Or is he over-reacting and its standard for sparks to do this? The team leader (who isn't apprentice trained or anything just did a short course but now, on paper, is 'more' qualified than my hubby!) told him that he breaks the seals all the time and has worked live straight off the mains and to just get on with it !(forgive my ignorance but that sounds dangerous to me!)
The other thing that bothers him is the company isn't registered with niceic or napit or anything.. they do a 'test' but the paperwork doesn't get sent anywhere- they don't tell building control or anything, is this within the rules? They are very slap dash about the works (he's seen a video that the appretice took at a job where there was asbestos in a property- they called the office to advise and say they can't take the heater out, the boss called back and insisted they do otherwise they'd be sacked.. and they more fool them they did take it out without taking appropriate precautions)
The surveys are conducted properly (as the salesmen do them) so when he turns up at a property, the electrics might have seen better days and maybe should be put under more duress by adding extra heaters to the circuits.
Its putting my husband in an awkward situation as he really needs the job, but equally, he doesn't want to end up doing something illegal under orders and being held accountable for it later.
Any advice will be greatly appreciated and my hubby is really worried he may get into trouble doing this sort of job, but until he can find something else, he really has no choice as we need his income.
thanks

 

[trev]

We don't have the power to condemn anything, all we can do is advise. we can issue danger notices but if the customer chooses to ignore them there's not really a great deal we can do.
You husband is correct, we are not supposed to break seals as this equipment belongs to the DNO. However no one has ever been prosecuted for breaking them.
If this team leader is better qualified than your husband on paper then what quals does your husband hold? If this "team leader" is a 5week wonder and your husband is a properly qualified electrician then there's no such thing as him being "better qualified on paper"
Anyone who works live when there is a perfectly usable method of isolation is a fool and deserves all he gets. The HSE would take a very dim view of this.
If the lads are being told to work with asbestos without proper training or PPE then the HSE need to be informed of this.
As an electrician your husband should know if he is making a bad situation worse by adding extra load to existing circuits.
If your husband is working under documented instructions or can prove that he is being coerced into working in this manner then he will be looked upon fairly favourably but he will be forced to take some responsibility should someone be injured or worse.
Best advice for him? Get out NOW!

The surveys are conducted properly (as the salesmen do them) That is laughable, are these salespeople electrically qualified? My money would say no. Seriously Sparkywag, get him out of there asap

 

[Pete999]

Not BG is it?

 

[trev]

Sorry, I forgot the bit about certification.
If your husband is conducting the tests required by BS7671 and filling in a certificate then that is his responsibility complete. The fact that his employer is not registered with a CPS is neither here nor there as far as he is concerned, he is in the clear.
I would advise that he keeps copies of every certificate he completes from now on in though

 

[telectrix]

think trev has answered it as well as anyone could.

 

[Johnuk]

salesman lol they have no clue

 

[Johnuk]

u have not met a hughes saleman , u ask him a question what not on this sheet of paper he has no clue

 

[Engineer54]

The surveys are conducted properly (as the salesmen do them) so when he turns up at a property, the electrics might have seen better days and maybe should be put under more duress by adding extra heaters to the circuits.

Now come on people, readining the whole sentence/paragraph it's plainly obvious that the OP meant to write ''Aren't''...!!

 

[trev]

Now come on people, readining the whole sentence/paragraph it's plainly obvious that the OP meant to write ''Aren't''...!!

Well spotted Mr 54.
An apology is due to Sparkywag, sorry but you got the bit between my teeth.
In that case, these salesmen don't have the right or the ability to survey jobs. Their sole purpose is to pressurise people into buying whatever they have been told to sell, regardless of whether the end user needs them or not

 

[dingledong]

As usual

 

[sparkywag]

Now come on people, readining the whole sentence/paragraph it's plainly obvious that the OP meant to write ''Aren't''...!!

Yes..oooops! sorry meant aren't!

My husband did a full apprenticeship and college training and has updated his quals as required- the team leaders are 5-week 'qualified'.. have the most recent quals, but have little or no experience and even less skills.

The main thing that was bothering him was about the seals.. your replies have eased my mind a little. He certainly would never do anything that would make a situation worse and would try his best to help improve the condition if he could.

With regards to NICEIC etc, the 'team leader' that does most of the testing isn't registered with anyone, neither is the company, and they don't notify building control or anyone. Just fill out a 'cert' and give a copy to the customer and 'file' one..

Thanks for your replies. My husband is applying for lots of jobs at the mo so hopefully will find something else and will leave asap.

 

[trev]

Whereabouts in the UK are you because there's some bits where Part P doesn't apply

 

[amckay]

With regards to the seals,
The DNO could if they so wished, push for criminal damage.
But, they can't.
It would cost them too much money in legal costs and compensation as the defence would be that they had to be cut in order to comply with H&S legislation, which in turn would eradicate any criminal intent.
Also, saying that the "boss" instructed him to do so could imply the company had DNO authorisation.

So I wouldn't worry too much about it. A lot of jobs sparks go to the seals are missing anyway.

 

[Pete999]

With regards to the seals,
The DNO could if they so wished, push for criminal damage.
But, they can't.
It would cost them too much money in legal costs and compensation as the defence would be that they had to be cut in order to comply with H&S legislation, which in turn would eradicate any criminal intent.
Also, saying that the "boss" instructed him to do so could imply the company had DNO authorisation.

So I wouldn't worry too much about it. A lot of jobs sparks go to the seals are missing anyway.

seals what seals

 

[dingledong]

Circus seals ? ?



Or are they banned nowadays ?