Issue with Hydroranger 200.

guest119 · Mar 27, 2014

Im working on a brand new ww pumping station and have an issue with the above.

DESCRIPTION (I know, should have photos)

New mcc panel with 80a main switch/change over (genny inlet).
HMI, PLC, Profibus to Hydroranger, VSDs, etc.
2 pumps @22kw fed from mcc section c and d, 50a fused.
Mcc is in a 2m high kiosk and to the right there are 2 vsds and the pump feeds exit in their own ducts immediately below them with a 10mm parallel cpc.
To the left side there is a magflow head and a Hydroranger 200.
Magflow cables and ultrasonic cable exit in their own duct towards the middle of the kiosk.
Separate ducts go through manholes and the pump supplies and ultrasonic cable enter the valve chamber where each has its own jb.
The banjos for pumps and ultrasonic armours are bonded back to the local traywork.
Final pump tails (Flyght) and u/sonic vendor cable come through from the well in separate ducts.
Hydroranger to u/sonic jb is wired in 0.75 3 core screened bs 5308 cable.

PROBLEM

Ultrasonic level is displayed acurately but when the VSDs kick in (reverse first then forward) the Hydroranger freezes its display and then starts to rise although the magflow confirms out flow. Then of course we have a potential dry running.
If we disconnect the cpc from the Hydroranger the problem goes away and the pumps obey the setpoints. The cpc comes from the common controls section with the L&N in plastic trunking/kopex.
The Hydroranger has relay number one set for dry run protection but in this scenario its useless.

Any experience?

Boydy

Guest111 · Mar 27, 2014

have you earthed the screening on your screened cable? seen problems before with an ungrounded screen acting as an aerial,some even have a drain wire inside with the cores.

guest119 · Mar 27, 2014

The screen is connected to the ultrasonic screen core at the jb end and to the screen connection in the Hydroranger.
So at no point does it connect to the wire armour Phil.
The spare core also is connected at both ends with the screen.

Boydy

Knobhead · Mar 28, 2014

Disconnect one end of the screen.

WaterSparky · Mar 28, 2014

Screens should usually only be connected from source end I think well what ive been taught.

guest119 · Mar 28, 2014

WaterSparky said:
Screens should usually only be connected from source end I think well what ive been taught.

The Milltronics/Siemens Hydroranger is looking for the screen at sensor 1 connections on the pcb.
+ve,_ve and screen.

Boydy

guest119 · Mar 28, 2014

Left it with the commissioning team this morning,I'll report back next week.

Boydy

UKMeterman · Mar 28, 2014

Screens need to be connected at BOTH ends and with a nice 360 degree circular connection. If there is excessive current in the screen then run another conductor in parallel.

UKMeterman · Mar 28, 2014

Have a read of
[h=1]EMC for Systems and Installations Tim Williams Keith Armstrong [/h]and also EMC Design Techniques for electronic engineers by Keith Armstrong

EMC Books - EMC Training

WaterSparky · Mar 30, 2014

What is the wiring from the head to the 3 core?

No doubt you had an manual, but.
Just a thought saw some contractors common the white with shield before accidently.

When connecting to a SITRANS LUT400, a SITRANS LUC500, a MultiRanger 100/200, or a HydroRanger 200, the white, black, and shield wires are all connected separately.DO NOT tie the white and shield wires together.

[ElectriciansForums.net] Issue with Hydroranger 200.

guest119 · Mar 30, 2014

Its a Siemens xps 15 in this instance.
Shield to shield of the bs5308 swa and black/white (ultrasonic) to black/blue (swa).
Its a commissioning issue now as Im install.
I'll report back when I find out so as to help others.
When I left on Friday the commission guy was messing about with earthing at the vsd gland plates and seemed confident he knew the issue.

Boydy

WaterSparky · Mar 30, 2014

Cheers for that! Could be useful one day!

guest119 · Mar 31, 2014

Right then, where to begin?

I havent been on site but I spoke to the commissioning engineer and he says its sorted.

We had a 4 core swa running to the pumps jb and only used 3 cores.
We also had a parallel earth wire.
At the pumps jb the parallel earth is the pumps cpc and the swa is just banjoed to the containment.
At the VSD we took the parallel earth to a stud on the gland plate (external) and off the same stud (internally) to the VSD pump earth connection, all because there was no space for a stuffer for the parallel earth.

Anyway, he used the spare core straight to the VSD output earth connection and connected it in the pump jb instead of the parallel earth.
Now no more Hydroranger problems.
Way above my head but something about square waveform dc switching by the VSD puting noise on the earthing.

So one for me to remember, the pump earth/cpc needs to go right into the VSD output connection and not to the glandplate. VSD glandplate is for swa banjo/containment only which apparently is somewhere in the Simatics instructions.

Phew!

Boydy