It's American, but interesting. | Page 2 | on ElectriciansForums

Discuss It's American, but interesting. in the Business Related area at ElectriciansForums.net

Just resurrecting the thread.
I've been doing a lot more research on flat rate pricing. I've been in contact with some US electricians and they've pointed me to a guy who endorses flat rate. He shows how you work out what to charge and I'll tell you this, you would never lose using his method, that is of course if you could get the work at those prices. A lot of US electricians offer their clients service contracts, that means they have two prices for tasks. One price for those service contract customers and one (which is higher) for those that are not. Basically this is a discount for those having several jobs done all in one hit as opposed to those who have one done one day and then another at another time.
 
Interesting stuff indeed.

Flat rate pricing has been around, even in the UK for many years in one guise or another.

It is important to say, right off, that there are as many pitfalls with flat rate pricing as there are advantages - which to be fair is true with almost all pricing models.

The trade with FRP is that you offset price against volume - which is to say you work harder on the sales part of the business to realise a profit of x than you might with other pricing models - primarily because Flat Rate sets pricing at an average level across many similar jobs. That is the other disadvantage of FRP too - it relies on a large body of data for accuracy, which many younger businesses simply will not have, and will have to guess at.

So, if you use flat rate pricing, you are effectively going to become a sales machine, much like some of the franchises now working in the UK - because you have to - at a higher, or even averaged, price per task, fewer customers overall will perceive the value (especially in the UK) - and so your conversion rate will alter accordingly. Where you might obtain one sale in three enquiries using other methods, you may find this drops to around one sale in eight enquiries using FRP. Therefore, although the FRP price is higher, it is actually realising less business overall - assuming the average of all jobs gives an FRP unit of ÂŁ300 and T&M pricing for example, says ÂŁ200. Right away we can see that FRP offers sales of ÂŁ900 every 24 enquiries, whereas T&M might offer ÂŁ1600 for the same volume. To realise the same level of sales as T&M using FRP, you actually have to meet some 42 enquiries.

This is the hidden cost of FRP - as I say - it offsets higher profits on work won against higher effort in the sales process. It is a model that is proven NOT to work effectively in low volumes, or smaller businesses (without dedicated sales teams).

Having said all that, we all use elements of Fixed Rate Pricing in our own methods of quoting. These especially come to the fore in things like labour rates, service callouts, and so forth. It does have a place, but not, IMO as the mainstay method of pricing.

The other thing I wanted to touch on is service contracts. The electrical installation business has always struggled to find a way to implement service contracts, particularly for domestic customers, although they are prevalent, and often mandatory, in related fields.

It is something worth bearing in mind, however, as legislation is slowly moving towards mandatory inspection on an annual or bi-annual basis. That will be the catalyst for service contracts in residential electrical contracting - whereas in commercial contracting it is far easier to gain this kind of foot hold, if you're confident enough to bundle things like PAT testing, re-lamping, and periodic inspection in a suitable agreement, and easier again if you include other services in that contract.
 
Swings and round a bouts ;)
Although FRP seems to be big in the US, you only have to look on their own forums and you will see many arguments for and against FRP.
It appears they have 3 main methods of pricing. FRP, T&M and what they call going rate (still trying to find out more about that).
 
Swings and round a bouts ;)
Although FRP seems to be big in the US, you only have to look on their own forums and you will see many arguments for and against FRP.
It appears they have 3 main methods of pricing. FRP, T&M and what they call going rate (still trying to find out more about that).

Yes. Going rate is normally either "state" set on an average across the continent, or set by local chapters (unions) based on a number of member driven factors, and designed to make sure all members get a fair shot at all the sales potentially available in an area.

T&M, much like the essence of the method we use in the UK, is left to the contractor to figure out, base don what he pays to provide the completed job.

Fixed rate, as I say, only really works if you have the volume of enquiries, and the ability to service those enquiries. That's just simple maths really.

However, unlike the US, we also have the advantage the we are much freer to set the rate we want to charge. US contractors generally have to factor in a number of other things too - such as licencing fees, notification fees, and so on.
 
However, unlike the US, we also have the advantage the we are much freer to set the rate we want to charge. US contractors generally have to factor in a number of other things too - such as licencing fees, notification fees, and so on.

As do we now, lol
Registration (Licensing)
Notification (Part P)

Well I always believed it was harder to set up business there due to them having a license system in place, but apparently my new American sparky friend tells me it's the same there as it is here. Plenty of unskilled people running around with no real policing system in place.
 
As do we now, lol
Registration (Licensing)
Notification (Part P)

Well I always believed it was harder to set up business there due to them having a license system in place, but apparently my new American sparky friend tells me it's the same there as it is here. Plenty of unskilled people running around with no real policing system in place.

True, there is that, lol!

I think the States are in many ways worse than here - although "code" can be quite strict in places, their standard overall are around fifty years behind ours.

Their policing systems aren't much more effective in most States, but boy, get caught and they'll bring the wrath of Ahab down on you - without a second thought.
 
Very interesting thread. I've been trying to build up a kind of "database" of jobs and time taken - basically my diary. There is a place for the fixed price jobs, mostly the small ones. I was thinking about having a wee trial of FP in the new year to see how it goes, just trying to come up with price levels that are realistic and cover costs and profit.

The trick would be to get a hold of a large franchises' pricing book to compare. These guys spend thousands if not millions researching how to price jobs and levels. There is a couple of Mr Elec ex franchise guys around here who might be able to shed some light on their pricing.
 
Very interesting thread. I've been trying to build up a kind of "database" of jobs and time taken - basically my diary. There is a place for the fixed price jobs, mostly the small ones. I was thinking about having a wee trial of FP in the new year to see how it goes, just trying to come up with price levels that are realistic and cover costs and profit.

The trick would be to get a hold of a large franchises' pricing book to compare. These guys spend thousands if not millions researching how to price jobs and levels. There is a couple of Mr Elec ex franchise guys around here who might be able to shed some light on their pricing.

It's always worth keeping some kind of database. The beauty of putting all that information into something like Outlook is that you'll be able to use the data to keep in contact - say with newsletters, or offers.

As regards Fixed Rate Pricing.....I'm fairly sure Mr Electric's pricing is obtainable somewhere. Without bursting anyone's bubble - fixed rate is normally set by budget, not research. There's no real mystery to it. A Fixed Rate Price is normally calculated as the average price of all that kind of job - e.g. FRP socket outlet = average of last ten or hundred sockets fitted, and so on.

In a previous incarnation, I worked for a big blue multi-national US owned conglomerate - which extensively used fixed pricing across all its divisions. The Fixed Rate pricing was calculated by accounts, on receipt of branch budget forecasts. Simply, the price for Service A, for example, was calculated as the average of all the budget forecasts for that service, plus a margin for infrastructure - no real science at all. Bloody expensive to use though!

As I said earlier, FRP does have a place, and is reasonably easy to implement in those places - but unless you have significant volume of leads, playing the averages, as I showed, is going to cost in terms of profit, and you are always going to be more of a sales machine than an electrician.

FRP is well suited to offers, service agreements, and what you might term "fixed" services - things that don't vary much from one job to the next - inspections, CU changes, and such - you could also budget a given level of cable to fix the price of some other things, such as bonding, or adding a socket - though with cable pricing the way it is, it would worry me - I'd end up absorbing the cost hikes, because my prices were fixed.

At the end of the day, if menu pricing is what works for you though, then great! I just can't see a way to make it work in a successful way in the UK - another difference between us and the US - territories, that is, sales areas, are a lot smaller too - either per head, or per square mile. They have the volume of leads to make FRP work.

Interestingly, when you look at those companies in the UK that do use some kind of FRP - satellite installers, electrical franchises, fire alarm Nationals - they all have features in common - the minimum amount of work to get to invoice (yeah, call it cutting corners), and the fundamental lack of service in the offering.
 
Hi Voltimax,
Sounds good if they will accept the idea of paying and then having it removed from the final invoice.
Best wishes
Rex
 

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