junction boxes. good or bad?

[mullock]

Hi all

i'm still doing my 2330 courses and am being instructed how to wire lighting circuits using a main feed and a strapper down to the switches. We have to told that junction boxes are bad practice as they restrict accessability which makes perfect sense.

I recently had a look at a family members house which has just been re-wired and found that juntion boxes had been used. Is this poor standards to save money on cable or the normal.

cheers everyone

 

[Bane]

Yes I believe it is.

 

[alex]

its really bad and poorly rewired if in a new installation they have needed to use junction boxes i cant see why apart from poor workmanship that they need junction boxes.

 

[danzor]

Hi all

i'm still doing my 2330 courses and am being instructed how to wire lighting circuits using a main feed and a strapper down to the switches. We have to told that junction boxes are bad practice as they restrict accessability which makes perfect sense.

I recently had a look at a family members house which has just been re-wired and found that juntion boxes had been used. Is this poor standards to save money on cable or the normal.

cheers everyone

do u mean the JB's were used in the 3 plate lighting connection or someone cut a cable to short and extended it?

 

[mullock]

its a fairly old house that was re-wired all though. From what i could see junction boxes where used as in the three plate lighting connection.

 

[rumrunner]

its a fairly old house that was re-wired all though. From what i could see junction boxes where used as in the three plate lighting connection.

hi
if the light fittings are not ,ceiling roses ,then "spiders" would be a neater and easyer way of doing it

 

[Spudmiester]

Spiders ? You could put one in the bath to frighten the kids/missus !!

 

[Victorcrane]

Quite glad someone brought this up. I'm two thirds through my 2330 also, and have worked for several different companies gaining experience on site.

About half have told me that absolutely under no circumstances should a junction box be used even if it means pulling out and reinstalling an entire run of cable that has been cut too short, and the other half have said it's fine to use jb's pretty much wherever it seems the most convenient thing to do.

I'm still quite a bit confused by this!

 

[rumrunner]

Quite glad someone brought this up. I'm two thirds through my 2330 also, and have worked for several different companies gaining experience on site.

About half have told me that absolutely under no circumstances should a junction box be used even if it means pulling out and reinstalling an entire run of cable that has been cut too short, and the other half have said it's fine to use jb's pretty much wherever it seems the most convenient thing to do.

I'm still quite a bit confused by this!

In my opinion using a junction box ,to extend a bit of cable is just lazy and bad practice ,using one to connect to a light fitting thats not a 3 plate fitting ,i think its preferable to using connector block pushed up into the ceiling
junction boxes have provided a solution for electricians for a very long time ,some folks just want to change everything.i will continue to use the good old spider as long as they make them ,but only as a solution not a matter of course

 

[MacSparky]

Hey rum, i haven't seen a 'spider' before....is there a link you know of so i can sneak a peep

cheers...mac

 

[wayne]

as a solution not as a matter of course,help im agreeing with rum too much

 

[danzor]

Hey rum, i haven't seen a 'spider' before....is there a link you know of so i can sneak a peep

cheers...mac

 

[rumrunner]

sh~~ man ,you freaked me out with that !

 

[MacSparky]

lmao..........they look tricky to terminate

 

[rumrunner]

Naw you just wrap the wire around its legs , they work a bit like a plc, there clever wee things

 

[Cirrus]

I use JB's every now and then to extend a circuit in order to save the time pulling a new circuit in. IMO, if terminated properly and accessible (and screwed down) then there is nothing wrong. However, if undergoing a rewire then there is no excuse for JB's.

 

[rumrunner]

I use JB's every now and then to extend a circuit in order to save the time pulling a new circuit in. IMO, if terminated properly and accessible (and screwed down) then there is nothing wrong. However, if undergoing a rewire then there is no excuse for JB's.

sorry to disagree cirrus ,but i wouldnt use a joint box to extend any circuit ,i consider it bad practice and would require the job to be done again if i was running the job.

 

[Cirrus]

Time is money old chap

 

[rumrunner]

naw ,its about having pride in your work ,in my opinion it doesnt matter how long a job takes as long as its right ,and money is no excuse for bad workmanship,as i said if you were working on a job i was running and you did that ,i would ask you to put it right ,if you argued about it i would pump you off the job ,its bad practice ,do a job to the best of your ability ,thats what pays in the end

 

[Cirrus]

So are you saying there is NEVER a reason to extend a circuit Rum? It is widely accepted practice to use JB's and even more commonly - crimps. I became a spark to enjoy the work but also make money fella and I would rather use a JB where necessary than 'lose' money by pulling a fresh circuit in.

 

[danzor]

what would you do if u went back to a finished job, finished wooden flooring etc. How would you extend a cable? Or would you wreck the house for a little job?

Like people say, for a new rewire there is no exscuse. I prefer to use JB's for 3 plats connections. A firm I do work for use connector blocks and then choc block them. I see Jb's as a neater job. Just my view

 

[Cirrus]

Same as me Danzor

 

[rumrunner]

what would you do if u went back to a finished job, finished wooden flooring etc. How would you extend a cable? Or would you wreck the house for a little job?

Like people say, for a new rewire there is no exscuse. I prefer to use JB's for 3 plats connections. A firm I do work for use connector blocks and then choc block them. I see Jb's as a neater job. Just my view

Yes ,i would stand by my principles, i would offer a price and if it wasnt accepted i would refuse to do the job ,simple
standards of workmanship are slipping ,thats partly why part p and all the rest of the crap was brought in ,
if you are happy doing a lash up ,thats up to you ,if your boss asks you to do it ,and you dont have the confidence to laugh at him ,and your happy being a puppet,all your life, do it ,
i set my own standards as far as what i deam acceptable practice,im at an advantage over you guys ,i was tought to the highest standard ,but im pleased to note the origional question on this thread ,was is it ok to use joint boxes ,because they told him at college it wasnt ,i agree, just because everyone else does something doesnt make it ok,
like i said you make your own standards.

 

[Cirrus]

Personal standards are great Rum but if I can earn a grand a week being safe and within the regs or £600 a week working by personal standards then it's a no brainer matey. Sorry but in Brown's world where cash is king - cash and safety first and principles second I'm afraid

 

[rumrunner]

Well they say every man has his price ,youre making a lot more than me right now ,so you must be rite,
Every trade has its chancers,i wonder what other "short cuts" you have to take to make your money.
i just hope you dont pass on your bad habits ,to lads that are going to take pride in there work .

 

[Cirrus]

It's not about bad habits Rum. I test everything I do and lets face it, to extend a circuit is no bad thing as long as tested thoroughly. If it is in a loft space and noone can see your 'skills' then who cares? Cables in a loft space - what pride is there to be had in hidden work? Maybe I am missing summat fella

Oh, and why insult me by deliberately calling me a 'chancer'?

 

[rumrunner]

It's not about bad habits Rum. I test everything I do and lets face it, to extend a circuit is no bad thing as long as tested thoroughly. If it is in a loft space and noone can see your 'skills' then who cares? Cables in a loft space - what pride is there to be had in hidden work? Maybe I am missing summat fella

Oh, and why insult me by deliberately calling me a 'chancer'?

no ,i wasnt actually saying you "were a chancer" ,i havent seen your work ,but from what youve said ,money is more important than pride in your work ,and lets face it if you can make a thousand pound a week ,doing domestic work ,why not take some short cuts,as long as you and your boss are happy with it ,carry on ,im like "manuel"(i know nothing) but the fact remains if you did that on one of my jobs i would ask ,ask mind ,that you change it.
i would always price the job to change a cable rather than extend it ,im sure you dont do anything very dangerous

 

[Cirrus]

Very dangerous? I do nothing dangerous Rum. Point taken about your own personal expectations though

 

[rumrunner]

i like to think my standards are high ,i always do a job to the best of my ability ,and have trained others to do the same ,perfection !, and it pays off.
i will never change my opinion about how to do ANY electrical job,i owe that much to the greatful dead

i set a guy on once ,as a subbie ,i asked him if he had done much conduit ,"yeah stacks of it ",i asked him if he could do pyro, "no problem pal" he could throw it in ok ,quicker than me ,i kept telling him it "looked rough" his answer who cares were making ****t loads,
i lost about 3 grand on that job ,the clerk of works failed it ,well his bit anyway ,he said my work was the highest standard he had seen for a very long time,and fixed it so i got a plant room to do next ,on the condition i got rid of the other guy ,
that guy was an experianced electrician ,but didnt do what the customer wanted ,
he let his standards slip.and got pumped.

all the best ,goodnite fella

 

[Andy M]

Very Interesting to read 2 view points, i agree with you both, we all, i hope try to do our work to the highest standards we can, but we are in the same Market Place as people that don't, and the bottom line is, do we do it for love? no we do it for the Money! I agree the Standard of Electrical Work, especially in the Domestic arena has dropped dramatically since i started 24 yrs ago. How many houses do you visit to do an alteration or addition, and the Bonding hasn't been done? I would say 90% of the jobs i go to, and the last person to work on the installation hasn't bothered. I see these latest regs changes and part p, not as a pain in the arse, but as a way of making some more money, but the skill is finding the right client base and leaving the customers who want a cheap job to the "chancers" who will do it for them, and when they come to sell their house in a few years,lets hope it all goes ---- up for them all. Target people who want Quality and Service and are prepared to pay for it. Before i take off my rose tinted glasses and hit the sack- Thought for the day - How many industries or walks of life, where as you gain more experience and become more qualified, does your salary or charges increase? Most i would say, but Electrical Contracting?

 

[Shakey]

Guys,

just butting in at the end of this one

me, I just follow the regs

and JB's are a perfectly acceptable method of joining cables, or 'doing what it says on the tin' i.e. providing a junction

providing they are installed i.a.w. the regs, i.e. accessible for maintenance, inspection etc, what is the problem?

Did a radial yesterday to sockets in an industrial unit.

used 4mm Tw&E on a 32A type B

came out from the dis board, through some joists, probably about 10m

needed to feed three doubles in a room to the left (about 8m at a right angle)

needed to feed 4 doubles in a straight run ahead, probably about 10m

Now Rum, what would you have done?

reading your posts, you wouldnt have used a JB as i did, so i could branch off th the room on the left, and branch straight ahead to the sockets.

So would you have gone straight from the dis board to the room and then come back on yourself and then go straight ahead to the other sockets?

If you had done that (the only alternative to using a JB) then you would have wasted 8m of cable, and more importatnly, you would have increased the Zs and v.drop on the final sockets, thereby making them less safe

So your principles what have cost money AND compromised safety

and if you were doing the job for me and HADN'T used a JB, i would have kicked your butt off the job

theres two sides to every coin, my friend

 

[Cirrus]

 

[rumrunner]

HA,
Shakey ,There are many senarios where i would use a joint box,as in 3 plate lighting as i explained earlier ,to be honest in your example above i wouldnt have ,but if i was doing the job for you and thats what you wanted ,i would just do it

What i was saying is i consider it bad practice to use a jb to extend a cable rather than install a fresh bit ,and also if i was in charge of the job i would ask for it to be changed.

for example, if somone was neading to move a socket on a ring ,one leg might be ok .yhe other to short .i would rewire the short leg ,

for example ,if a cable had got damaged ,i wouldnt use a jb as a repair ,i would replace the whole cable.

what if half a dozen sockets neaded moving about ,you would end up with jbs all over the place ,now no one can say thats a good job.