Just a little guidance required

[pete.willerton]

Hi
This may be a common question but recently started doing domestic work.
I have been asked to move a cooker circuit and add a power point for a oven and microwave.
The DB is a old re-wire fuses wylex with no Rcd protection.
How do you stress that you need to update the DB, before I can install the above circuits due to no RCD protection being present on the sockets or cooker circuit ???
There attitude was: it works fine now why does it have to be brought up to date with the current regs... Your telling me everyone is updating there fuse boards !
I assume a lot of electricians get this from clients.
Just won't to see how people tackle such situations.

 

[Sintra]

You don't need to upgrade the cu. All you have to do is make sure that your additional works comply to the latest version of the BGB.

 

[pete.willerton]

Ok eg chase depths being 50mm and being in the prescribed zone ?

 

[GMES]

As Sintra say's you are only responsible for the circuits you are working on , not on what's already in the installation, make sure your new circuits comply to bs7671, do all relevant testing and issue appropriate certificates.

 

[Badged01]

Went to a house the other day where they had done exactly that. Same circuit off the re-wireable fuse run through a seperate RCD. Not the smartest looking of jobs but it did the trick and met the regs! Just make sure the bonding to water/gas is in place too .....

 

[stuartcourt]

Hi
This may be a common question but recently started doing domestic work.
I have been asked to move a cooker circuit and add a power point for a oven and microwave.
The DB is a old re-wire fuses wylex with no Rcd protection.
How do you stress that you need to update the DB, before I can install the above circuits due to no RCD protection being present on the sockets or cooker circuit ???
There attitude was: it works fine now why does it have to be brought up to date with the current regs... Your telling me everyone is updating there fuse boards !
I assume a lot of electricians get this from clients.
Just won't to see how people tackle such situations.

Feel your pain brother, I always give them a choice between a board change and a separate in this case 2 way RCD board. Most of the time they upgrade as by time you put henley blocks in for tails extend circuits (always to short), sort bonding in most cases and fit new board, not much more for board replacement. Do not cut corners or price for these fools as sooner or later another spark will come and condemn your work or something worse and you will in the ****

 

[pete.willerton]

Only trouble is I bet some electricians would do the work without adding any additional protection especially kitchen fitters.
I was thinking about install the cables at 50mm but that would mean a 60-70mm chase due to the capping to achieve the 50mm min
But it's single skin breeze.

Think I'm going to stick with the new DB required. As I have seen a few installs with rcd enclosures and they look awful! Like Stuartcourt mentioned by the time you mess about it's just as easy to do a DB change.

 

[sledgehammer]

The trouble with old db's with Wylex 3036 being the most common is, tail and earthing conductor sizes. The terminals won't even take the sizes required these days so how'd you use it when on install cert you have to state 6mm main earth etc. Separate 2 way unit I say.

 

[stuartcourt]

Only trouble is I bet some electricians would do the work without adding any additional protection especially kitchen fitters.
I was thinking about install the cables at 50mm but that would mean a 60-70mm chase due to the capping to achieve the 50mm min
But it's single skin breeze.

Think I'm going to stick with the new DB required. As I have seen a few installs with rcd enclosures and they look awful! Like Stuartcourt mentioned by the time you mess about it's just as easy to do a DB change.

any additional sockets would require RCD protection even when 50mm deep unless its a spur you mean

 

[stuartcourt]

The trouble with old db's with Wylex 3036 being the most common is, tail and earthing conductor sizes. The terminals won't even take the sizes required these days so how'd you use it when on install cert you have to state 6mm main earth etc. Separate 2 way unit I say.

replace consumer, dont need to worry

 

[Kate]

I think its HSE, but not sure maybr niceic, anyway you can download leaflets explaining why it needs a db upgrade and the benefits. Its made for the customer. Can help them see that you arent just ripping them off

 

[Brightspark2]

I think its HSE, but not sure maybr niceic, anyway you can download leaflets explaining why it needs a db upgrade and the benefits. Its made for the customer. Can help them see that you arent just ripping them off

ESC do a pack of leaflets that you can keep in the van, good quality too. Pick them up for free from electrafix.

Although it isn't saying you need to upgrade the consumer unit. It explains the benefit of fitting RCDs, which could go hand in hand with a CU change...

 

[Engineer54]

Well the existing 6mm/7/044 T&E will in all probability look after both Hob and Oven, and a spur from the existing kitchen ring circuit should take care of the microwave!! So not sure why you need to update the CU, even if it is preferable overall!!

 

[pete.willerton]

Yes that's true it's illustrated in the part p electricians guide... But the oven isn't located near the hob so the cable would have to be chased and terminated in the oven housing

 

[Sintra]

You can use an earthed metallic conduit.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I think its HSE, but not sure maybr niceic, anyway you can download leaflets explaining why it needs a db upgrade and the benefits. Its made for the customer. Can help them see that you arent just ripping them off

Hi Kate,

Any idea where you can get these leaflets from? Have had a good look around the internet but I cant find anything specifically explaining to a customer why we HAVE to fit RCD's for certain types of work.

I found the following which is good but not exactly as above.
Electrical Safety Leaflets : Electrical Safety Council

Thanks...

 

[Kate]

Elecsa - Consumer RCD Safety Leaflet

 

[Kate]

I did mean esc and not hse

 

[pete.willerton]

The job has evolved ....
Went to have another look today.
The DB is supplied with 16mm tails,
The cooker is a 4mm 32amp fused cable that goes to a cooker switch then it supplies a 1 gang socket.
The items that's plugged in are two extension leads daisy chained around the kitchen to the dishwasher and the oven.
Nightmare