Just got a 5 storey house to do -advice needed ?

[Roger]

Big budget 200k plus,5 bathrooms,60k kitchen,very good day rate.Will keep me busy for months.We will be involved in the stripping out and old coppers getting a good rate currently .My plumber mate was rubbing his hands and then started talking about megaflows and all that.

Existing property has 3 phase going to 3 seperate single phase meters.Lots of bedsits so might have made billing easier ?
First thing to do ? after inceasing liability insurance as its in London !
Contact Electricity provider and get them to install a 3 phase meter.Earthing is via a galv strap to the casing of a 100amp isolater to the sheath of the incoming armoured.
Install a 3 phase distribution board and split phases over floor or have multiple phases on same floor ?
Power on one and lighting on other and so on.Kitchen on one phase,living room power on another ?
Whats best way to do it ?
Best make of dist boards ?
Want loads of stuff CCTV,scene lighting,alarms,cat 6 data throughout.
Big project for me ,feel a little out of my depth so much advice sort ,lots of wise heads on here.
Thank youi

 

[Spudnik]

Do you really need 3 phase??

The only issue you are going to have if you do, is having differing phases on the same floor.

Personally, I think you would be best to try and spilt the phases over the 5 floors.

And then you could put a small CU on each floor for power lighting etc.

There would be nothing worse than having to go down 4 flights of stairs when the kettle trips it all out

And on a business sense, make sure you get a contract agreed and signed before you start, plus a considerable amount of money upfront, with stage payments during the process.

If you havent, then you seriously need to try and sort it.

Good luck, and if you need a hand, im sure there are plenty of lads on here that would oblige.

 

[Roger]

Thanks Jason,

I thought the 3 phase route would be best to keep and it would certainly cope with the intended use adequately.Although 100 amps single phase would probably be adequate.Is 100 amps the maximum that you can get in a domestic situation ?
I was under the impression that many large houses would have a 3 phase supply.I have been to a few locally where I have just completed no more than maintenance work really and they have been 3 phase.

To feed the distribution boards on each floor would i just use twin and earth 16mm probably.
Looking into in it in more detail,I favour a hager 3 phase board then like you say a CU on every floor with different phases.RCBO,s throughout

Finances :- it is propsed we do a summary spreadsheet every 2 weeks and present for payment.With no finalised spec it is hard to put a exact figure on it.The client offered to pay the congestion charge and all parking.

It will be expensive and stage payments will help with the finances ,especially the bills from the wholesalers !

 

[gawain]

if its big budget have you suggested putting in mi cable.

 

[blackiel]

How many storeys/floors is it on? Is there a basement/Garage/Pool/Roof Terrace?

Any idea of each floors square footage/meterage?(Footage better)

Draw a layout of the whole floorplan and download it on here.

Done a few of these around Kensington / Knightsbridge/Holland Park/Fitzrovia/Eaton Square/Sloane Square and was surprised to find they were not as daunting as at first seemed...

Quite easy from a birds eye/plan view.

 

[Roger]

How many storeys/floors is it on? Is there a basement/Garage/Pool/Roof Terrace?

Any idea of each floors square footage/meterage?(Footage better)

Draw a layout of the whole floorplan and download it on here.

Done a few of these around Kensington / Knightsbridge/Holland Park/Fitzrovia/Eaton Square/Sloane Square and was surprised to find they were not as daunting as at first seemed...

Quite easy from a birds eye/plan view.

Hi there,

I have a floor plan now (no scanner though)

Basement 705 sq feet kitchen and dining area
first floor 430 sq feet manin living area really just one reception open living room
master suite 570 sq feet ,main bedroom,dressing area and bathroom
child suite 484 sq feet, play area, bedroom and storage area and bathroom/shower room
Guest suite 462 sq feet ,bedroom,big bathroom area ,dressing area,sitting area.

Talking about excavating below basement(blimey how much will that cost ?)

Need to make provision for somekind of central hub would be handy near main CU.They want Cat 6 cabling through,HDMI links and now some theme lighting with central control on each floor ,suggest Lutron or Futronix.CCTV,Door entry with colour viewing on each floor via telly av channel i guess.And security system.And garden lighting,ok with this as have used Collingwood before and its great.

Would be useful if someone could suggest a complete house package which would do all of this,or a combination of.

The house is in W2 and it does need gutting completely and we are down to do this as well.So we will have a blank canvas to work from really and a totally empty property.

Suggestions and advice welcome.

 

[nickblake]

you could end up with some long cable runs , so could be an idea to install a sub main on one of the floors to reduce the length ,

 

[UNG]

A 200K budget doesn't sound that big if the 60K kitchen is included in that

With no finalised spec this sounds like a recipe for disaster

I would suggest for the lighting, data, video, TV etc you look at the home automation systems that are available as these will give you more flexibility

Home Automation - The most complete guide to home automation information on the web

With the three phase I would try to keep to a single phase on a floor if possible but it doesn't always work out

The main one is make sure any spec changes are by written instruction and costed so everything gets paid for

 

[NEsparky]

You definatley whan to keep the three phase, single phase will give big problems as extra showers, water heaters are added at a later date.

As far as distribusion goes MEM Memshield 3 dist boards i would recomend, One TP placed at central hub or near supply. Then 5 SP boards one per floor fed via sub mains.

This allows you to treat all floors as a seperate entity, therefore no chance of crossing phases.

So the only thing crossing through floors of a different phase would be the sub main.

Also for saftey would suggest using an LV control system for the heating again to stop possibility of phases crossing

hope this helps

 

[Roger]

Thanks chaps,

Good advice so far.

Budget confirmed and nothing to fancy,provisional building alteration 200k,kitchen 60k,bathrooms 50k,internal fittings 50k,services heating/electrics 60k.Additional amounts subject to planning have a contingency of a further 250k !!!

Have a spreadsheet with a plan and extent of some of the works involved even down to number of points required.Billing to be fortnightly.

Still sounds to good to be true

One thought to run submains to the floors best to do in twin and earth 16mm subject to calculations or someone did suggest MI or amoured,opinions please

Thank you

 

[NEsparky]

I wudnt bother with mi, personally I would use SWA for sub mains but twins would be fine, don't forget I'm assuming you are going to have a service duct you will need vertical containment as 5 storeys of cable will be heavy.

Good luck

Jim

 

[blackiel]

Couple of jobs we done round that way a few years ago, also dug below the basement,one for a swimming pool,one for a large underground garage....,Pool had lights, filters,whirlpool,Sound system,motorised cover(motor at each end) and all sorts of other stuff,probably old hat these days,but new at the time...Garage had lights,on sensors ,plus overrides,sockets,emergency lighting,fire sensors and other bits and pieces,also a lift all the way up,havent done one like this for a while,didnt plan the ones i was on,either,just run what was on the spec,werent my bankrupter,aint trying to tell ya to suck eggs mate,but there are design companies who will take each floor,design your system and needs and give you somewhere to fall back,in times of severe head scratching,...

Any chance of a weekly blog,old son,just out of sheer interest...??

Good Luck!!!

 

[ian]

How I would love one of those at the moment. I am stuck with 3 bed mid terrace . rewires. However have done a couple of 4 storey over the last couple of years, both were 3 phase. I installed an additional CU on the top floor to service floors 3 & 4, a CU on the ground floor to service floors 1 & 2, and a small 6 way CU for the hall and stairway lights, smokes and kitchen.

 

[Roger]

Bit of an update,Still really going nowhere as owners is still pulling it apart and getting ideas as to what to do.

I have been asked to provide power for lightning and services.And make safe existing,and certify it !. I have an exisiting CU,s on all floors the wiring of which i am unsure about although a quick glance last time i was up there the CU's all looked dirty and knackered.As a temporary fix should i just power from the nearest CU in the basement and run leads and extensions to upper floors.I would assume that floor standing lighting is ok to use and i guess it will all be 110 volt.In my mind it makes sense either to buy a simple CU and just run all power of of that until it decided what to do.However trailing leads everywhere which could be pinned to the walls.It will all be yellow anyway so visable.50 metre extension reels with RCD protection.

Plumbers and other services are trying to run a main service duct ,previously it looks like a chimney was used.Can I use same duct as them or due to fire regs what do i have to do between floors.I am sort of sounding out load here so don't jump down my throat.The thought of being out of my depth is coming back again.

Hi Blackiel ,still in london ? I was thinking that as soon as i got spec to give it to a company to design.Who did you use ? what did you do between floors ?

Thanks

 

[marksparky]

i wud suggest 16mm split concentric for submains great stuff! dont panic bout bein out of ur depth, i wud try and do a floor at a time and get them to commit to wat they want and try knock it out that way, as for power in the mean time i wud use temporary boards maybe three or four for power etc and 110v festoon lighting.

 

[Mobypuke]

I think 16mmMI is going to cost!,IMO armoured is favourable ,quite cheap,user friendly fairly bulletproof

 

[Richard]

Hi, the best way to tackle these sort of projects is a floor/board at a time. We`ve wired a few large mansions in the past, and if you try to think of it as a whole, you`ll get nowhere. A floor at a time, each circuit at a time. Finish with one circuit, on to the next.

I assume you`ll be running the alarm circuits from the initial three phase board? And that it'll be one circuit to cover the building? If so, i would leave these sort sort of circuits until the end, simply because by that time, you understand the construction of the building, and they should come faster.

 

[blackiel]

Hows it going,Son,aint interfered,as been away,had no real input....Agree with last post..break it up into circuits,on different phases,keeping them away from each other,...Alarmsetc,should be communal,so if the distance isnt too great,youll manage on one phase,normally Landlords,by now,i assume you know that,Building control can be great help,when approached right...Good Luck!!!!!!!

 

[blackiel]

By the way...Armoured subs,All floors....No MICC..not worth it!!!

 

[blackiel]

realise my commentsare a bit late,Ive been away a while....Howd you get on...???...Did it go welll,make a profit,no fires yet...Our worst fear.surely your least,Let me know Boy,out of interest....Cheers!!!!

 

[m25maintenance]

i find it best to stay away from these posh rich gits.ok money talks but i can't listen to all the moaning and issues these cliants have. good luck,ull need it

 

[Roger]

Update,have not been on here for ages !
It all been rescheduled for the new year,planning problems have delayed the start of the work.They wanted to alter to much and have a fight on their hands now getting the revised (many times) plans through.At one point they wanted to go under the road with a basement Gym thing !
Thanks for the advice ,will try to post a bit more frequently

 

[accordfire]

Big budget 200k plus,5 bathrooms,60k kitchen,very good day rate.Will keep me busy for months.We will be involved in the stripping out and old coppers getting a good rate currently .My plumber mate was rubbing his hands and then started talking about megaflows and all that.

Existing property has 3 phase going to 3 seperate single phase meters.Lots of bedsits so might have made billing easier ?
First thing to do ? after inceasing liability insurance as its in London !
Contact Electricity provider and get them to install a 3 phase meter.Earthing is via a galv strap to the casing of a 100amp isolater to the sheath of the incoming armoured.
Install a 3 phase distribution board and split phases over floor or have multiple phases on same floor ?
Power on one and lighting on other and so on.Kitchen on one phase,living room power on another ?
Whats best way to do it ?
Best make of dist boards ?
Want loads of stuff CCTV,scene lighting,alarms,cat 6 data throughout.
Big project for me ,feel a little out of my depth so much advice sort ,lots of wise heads on here.
Thank youi

As you say, first thing to do is to contact the supplier, and get the incomer sorted. #Increase your liability insurance if you feel it needs it - £5M should be more than enough, and make sure your contract paperwork is watertight.

Second, and MOST IMPORTANT thing from your perspective - GET YOUR PAYMENT TERMS AGREED. If you're on a day rate for it, when do you invoice and get fund released, if it's purely staged invoicing, at what points can you raise a valuation?

For jobs over £10k now, we insist on staged payments - we have to - and it's normally 25% on delivery to site of materials, 25% at end of first fix witness testing, 47.5% on handover, and 2.5% retention for three months, unless varied for other reasons.

By the sounds of the job, it might pay you to price for, and get in a specialist designer - and get him to sign off on the design. You reduce your liability considerably this way.

For the CCTV, CAT6, alarms, and by the sound of the size of the property your fire alarm will be BS5839-6, probably grade LD1, and you'll need BS5266 emergency lighting too. Again, maybe worth pricing for specialists.....

As regards the fire, CCTV, alarms, emergency lighting and CAT6, happy to provide design and quotations for install and ongoing maintenance (requirement for the standards for both fire and emergency lighting), and effectively take that off your worry list.....let me know.

 

[kgeorge]

id stick a 3phase db at incomer
own db for kitchen
try and agree a db on say the middle floor for small power
if they are having lutron or crestron for lighting and automation ample supply at incomer for these submains
i tested a house with 2x32way lutron circuits 16x4 way mods in total
each mod was fed from a 16a rcbo in 2.5t+e
niccy man made me test each circuit as a submain to each mod and class a mod as a 4way db
6bed house with stables ,summerhouse and garages turned out to have 124 test sheets with 40 dbs

plan it well my friend to limit paperwork

 

[Engineer54]

Well were more than half way thru 2011, and if it hasn't started yet, i doubt if it ever will, not with this client anyway!!!

Not only that, .....the client has probably lost all of his money in the world financial crash. Serves him right too, if he was one of these greedy bankers or speculator types ...lol!!!