kitchen appliances and ways to isolate

[ianphilip007]

hi,

after some advice re isolation for under the counter kitchen sockets for appliances such as built in washing machines,dish washers,freezers ect. wondering what methods people use.

currently i am instaling a switch fused spur adjacent to a local double socket and spuring down to unswitched single socket. hence using the switch fused spur as the isolator. ive heard that having two 13 amp fuses in series is wrong re discrimination but cant see any problem,we wire fused spurs for additional sockets like that all the time am i missing something. this is ok for maybe one or two appliances but can become very crowded and look messy for a bank of under counter sockets. any other methods that people use ?? (for additions to exisitng circuit)

for new circuit installs ive thought of wiring 13amp sfu or 20amp DP switches directly into the ring main and feeding the socket from the load side, but can you actually wire a 20amp rated switch to a 32 amp protected ring main, i cant see a problem as the appliance is will never draw more than 13amps, just the rating of the switch that bothers me

another thought was to wire unfused spur from local socket to a switched socket located in an adjacent cupbord and plug appliance in there giving access for isolation, solving the problem of numerous sfu or dp switches.

any one see a problem with any of these or have better ideas or suggestions most welcome

 

[telectrix]

all those methods are acceptable, the last one is the least favourite, though. if you have several appliances, you might consider a 4 way grid switch assembly with the switches engraved for each appliance.

 

[ianphilip007]

do you mean something like a 4mm2 32 amp protected radial feeding all four 20 amp grid switches then on to individual sockets , no fusing moduals required as all appliances will be fused at 13amps correct??

 

[HandySparks]

So many valid options!
I can see why tel might not like it, but a socket in an adjacent cupboard means only one 13A fuse (in the plug). Also unplugging in order to test either the circuit or the appliance is easy without moving the appliance out which, for built-in appliances, can be a right pain. If accessible, a socket fixed to the wall, accessible though a good sized hole in the back panel of the cupboard might be preferred.

 

[telectrix]

that would be ideal.

 

[ianphilip007]

would you mout the socket towards the front of the cupboard on the side of cupboard and clip the 2.5mm t+e to the cupboard ?? or mount the socket on the back wall of cupboard to conceal the 2.5mm. personally my only concern is the socket being connected to the actual cupboard and not the fabric of the building, but i guess if its a fitted kitchen cupboard then its not exactly going to be moved anywhere.

 

[ianphilip007]

so 20amp DP switches can be wired into the ring main no problems re there rating ??

 

[ianphilip007]

thanks tel, for new installs grid system seems easiest and neatest. just to add i cant see any reason why the grid switches cant be added to a ring main instead of a radial if you choose is there ???

 

[telectrix]

thanks tel, for new installs grid system seems easiest and neatest. just to add i cant see any reason why the grid switches cant be added to a ring main instead of a radial if you choose is there ???

you can fit the grid switches into RFC, but would need to consider the loading on the RFC, especially if the switches were towards 1 end of the RFC, as then the majority of the appliance load would be on 1 leg of the RFC.

each switch needs only to be rated to the load current of the appliance that it's feeding, not to the ccc of the circuit.

 

[Amp David]

Click grids are standard procedure on any kitchen I do now, be it new or refit.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

would you mout the socket towards the front of the cupboard on the side of cupboard and clip the 2.5mm t+e to the cupboard ?? or mount the socket on the back wall of cupboard to conceal the 2.5mm. personally my only concern is the socket being connected to the actual cupboard and not the fabric of the building, but i guess if its a fitted kitchen cupboard then its not exactly going to be moved anywhere.

fit if possible on the hinge side, at the front. At the back a bad idea as it'll maybe get smacked all the time. Less likely at front and also easy to get to if you need to. Hinge side out of the way as you tend to grab stuff the other side. put the cables in a wee bit of trunking.

 

[drew35]

Personally I hate to see a FCU feeding a socket for an appliance, what's the point? A FCU looks ugly compared to 20amp switch, and the FCU also costs more.

 

[ianphilip007]

thanks for all the replys most helpful,

 

[telectrix]

Personally I hate to see a FCU feeding a socket for an appliance, what's the point? A FCU looks ugly compared to 20amp switch, and the FCU also costs more.

not only that, but with a FCU, you have 2 13A fuses in series, no discrimination. if 1 fails, you don't know which.

 

[MarkieSparkie]

not only that, but with a FCU, you have 2 13A fuses in series, no discrimination. if 1 fails, you don't know which.

You would know which one (or both) had failed if you fitted an SFCU with an indicator lamp.