Kitchen Zone Ring Main

Maximus Rumpas · Nov 22, 2012

Hi all,

I would like to check something with you. My sister has purchased a 1980’s two bedroom flat in a residential development. There is a single ring main. This was modified around the year 2000 when a new kitchen was installed. 3 additional 2 gang socket outlets and a couple of fuseds pur outlets in the kitchen. Two additional 2 gang socket outlet in the living room and a single socket outlet in the hall. All off these were run as spurs from the ring.

I have removed all these fittings as the work was sub-standard (earth wires not connected, sockets not level, etc., clearly this work was not done by an electrician) I am now left with the original builders ring main.

I would like to install a separate ring main for the kitchen, for convenience this would also supply the extractor fan and heated towel rail in the bathroom.

I have cut back the ring where it enters the kitchen and fitted a flush plate and a label indicating that the wiring behind is part of the rest of flat circuit. This will be hidden behind the new kitchen units.

I would like to keep a single low level socket outlet on the rear wall of the kitchen supplied by the original ring. I suppose this question is about zoning. Is there a regulation which states that all the sockets within the kitchen zone be feed by the same circuit? (in which case it will have to beremoved)

Thanks for your assistance.

Deleted member 9648 · Nov 23, 2012

No is the answer to your question......but be aware the work you are carrying out comes under part P and as such you are legally obliged to notify building control and certify the installation. As you are clearly not an electrician you need to think about how this will be achieved if you carry out the work yourself.

MDJ · Nov 23, 2012

I'm frightened already, cutting back rings and fitting blank plates which are not accessable and not being an electrician??

richy3333 · Nov 23, 2012

Could have been a bad electrician that did the original work?

'I have cut back the ring where it enters the kitchen and fitted a flush plate and a label indicating that the wiring behind is part of the rest of flat circuit. This will be hidden behind the new kitchen units."

Unless your connections are maintenance free as per Regs then this has to be accessible to inspection - as MDJ has said.

"I would like to keep a single low level socket outlet on the rear wall of the kitchen supplied by the original ring. I suppose this question is about zoning. Is there a regulation which states that all the sockets within the kitchen zone be feed by the same circuit? (in which case it will have to be removed)"

No there is no Reg that requires it, but it isn't really good practice and you have already alluded to poor practice by the original DIY'er?

As has been said this needs to be signed off under the Building Regs and also needs an electrical installation certificate.

- - - Updated - - -

Could have been a bad electrician that did the original work?

'I have cut back the ring where it enters the kitchen and fitted a flush plate and a label indicating that the wiring behind is part of the rest of flat circuit. This will be hidden behind the new kitchen units."

Unless your connections are maintenance free as per Regs then this has to be accessible to inspection - as MDJ has said.

"I would like to keep a single low level socket outlet on the rear wall of the kitchen supplied by the original ring. I suppose this question is about zoning. Is there a regulation which states that all the sockets within the kitchen zone be feed by the same circuit? (in which case it will have to be removed)"

No there is no Reg that requires it, but it isn't really good practice and you have already alluded to poor practice by the original DIY'er?

As has been said this needs to be signed off under the Building Regs and also needs an electrical installation certificate.

kingeri · Nov 23, 2012

I don't mean to offend, but what's to say that your work will comply with the regs and more than the original work did? My advice is to pay a spark to do the job, then you'll have piece of mind that it's all done right, as well as the required certificates, he can also handle notification to building control for you.

Maximus Rumpas · Nov 23, 2012

First of all thank you all very much for your comments and advice.

Unfortunately we don't have the money to employ an electrician to complete the work. Didn't relies that I had to inform Building Control about the nature of the work, although I did know that the work has to be certified. I haven't broken any rules thus far and it looks like I sought advice just in time. I will contact the authorities on Monday.

Just to clarify a couple of points: The original ring main as fitted by the builders, supplied a single 2 gang socket outlet in the kitchen, positioned between the work-surface and wall cabinets, and a low level single socket outlet on the rear wall. The cables are run throughout in plastic conduit. The ring main runs from the consumer unit to the kitchen 2 gang socket outlet then on to the single low level outlet. From there it feeds the other rooms in the flat returning to the consumer unit from the living room.

What I have done is to cut back the conduit to low level and fitted a 25mm double metal box. I was thinking of either replace the existing wiring and loop from the incoming conduit to the outgoing, or utilise the existing cable and fit a connector block. (finishing in both cases with the flush plate) Would either of these to options be acceptable?

In regard to the single low level socket outlet; I think it would be best if it were removed (noting Richy3333 comment about best practice) What would be your advice if I wanted the hide the fitting. Is there an alternative to using aflush plate?

john999uk · Nov 23, 2012

You might have a shock when you speak to building control. I believe that their inspection costs are very high. In fact I would bet that to get the job done by a properly qualified electrician might actually be cheaper that getting the council to inspect and certify. The regs are very complicated, it's not just a case of fitting the correct cable, there are volt drops, earth loop impedances, insulation tests, RCD trip times, not to mention equipotential bonding that all need to be addressed. You might also need a new consumer unit as I believe all sockets in kitchen and bathroom electrics need RCD protection.

Please get appropriate help.

I am not a spark but have learned a lot over the last few weeks from the very helpful people here and reading 17th regs (400 pages) and on site guides (200 pages).
Once you get an idea of the costs from council I would say get a couple of quotes from decent sparks and get the work done LEGALLY!
Remember that your sisters house insurance will be invalid, and the properties resale valve might drop if the work is not certified.

Maximus Rumpas · Nov 23, 2012

john999uk thanks for your reply,

I have been looking at my local council building control costs on the web and you may well be right about the cost differential. Actually I was a LEB apprentice back in the early 70s but thing have moved on since then and I have not been remotely connected with the trade for the last 40 odd years. I do however, recognise the importance of having the job completed to the correct standard and there is no question about flying under the radar.

Interesting point about the property resale value. I wonder if certificates for electric and gas/boiler instalation forms part of the solicitor enquires. Not something of which I have experience because my property was purchased from new. Caveat emptor I suppose.

Regards
Max

old dog · Nov 24, 2012

Its very late and I could be reading it wrong.
The way you describe what you have done.
Stripping back the ring, You don;t say anything about leaving the ring complete.
Ignore me if you have done that. I prefer to point it out even if it is the case,
No harm done.

I have cut back the ring where it enters the kitchen and fitted a flush plate and a label indicating that the wiring behind is part of the rest of flat circuit. This will be hidden behind the new kitchen units.

Read more: http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...962-kitchen-zone-ring-main.html#ixzz2D5r8PuST

I have cut back the ring where it enters the kitchen and fitted a flush plate and a label indicating that the wiring behind is part of the rest of flat circuit. This will be hidden behind the new kitchen units.

Read more: http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...962-kitchen-zone-ring-main.html#ixzz2D5r8PuST

I have cut back the ring where it enters the kitchen and fitted a flush plate and a label indicating that the wiring behind is part of the rest of flat circuit. This will be hidden behind the new kitchen units.

Read more: http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...962-kitchen-zone-ring-main.html#ixzz2D5r8PuST