LABC Notification question.

[HARRYSPADGE]

Hi,

I have a question regarding the notification of electrical works to the LABC.
As I understand it from what I've read on here, if you are a member of an organisation such as Elecsa, NICEIC, etc, you are able to self-certify any work you carry out as a competent person. These organisations then notify the LABC for you - have I understood that correctly ?
If this is the case but you are not a member of one of these organisations, as a time-served and competent electrician, how do you guys who aren't members of an organisation go about certifying your work ?
Am I also to understand it correctly that some sparks see these organisation's as money making scams ?
Is it just a case of the LABC going by your qualifications to ascertain whether you are competent or not ?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Richard Burns]

The regulations state that if you are not a member of a self certification scheme then you must inform BC in advance of any notifiable work, pay their exorbitant fee and they will monitor the work as they see fit and issue a building regulations completion certificate once the work is complete.

If you are a member of a self certification scheme then you can complete the work, notify your compliance with the building regulations to your scheme provider pay the approx £3 notification fee and they will inform building control and issue a building regulations compliance certificate to the person specified in your notification.

In practice some (and only some) local building controls will permit someone with full qualifications to complete the work and supply them with the installation certificate as proof of BR compliance and they will complete the required forms for the owner.
This may be without cost or at a reduced fee.

Because of the large size of the fees for notification directly to building control it is not practically possible to go through this process for each notifiable job as you would be significantly non competitive with another electrician who is a member of a self certification scheme.
Having a self certification scheme membership is expensive but would be paid for after about three jobs, however paying the amount you do to have a computer generate a letter to a householder and an email to BC still seems a disproportionate charge, especially as you are paying for that cost at each notification.

 

[Silly Sausage]

What is notifiable is really limited these days, see this...
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_AD_P_2013.pdf

It is the householders responsibility to notify the LABC, NOT the Electrician.
There is now an ever growing body of Electricians who are not signing up with the scams, sorry, schemes, NICEIC etc etc.
Join the Force and don't give any of your money to these Cash Leeching organisations.

If you feel you are fully competent to carry out electrical work, carry on, issue the relevant documentation to the customer and move on to the next job.

DO NOT get yourself ripped off with being mugged by the NICEIC etc!!!



Edit: just noticed it's a DIY question, but still worth posting.
Deprive the Leeches of their food source, they'll quickly die!

 

[NJG28]

Where I live LABC costs for electrical work notification in advance is £480 !!!!! At least Dick Turpin had the courtesy to wear a mask! ! One notifiable job would cover CPS membership!

 

[rich67577]

So what your saying is really do the work issue your own test cirt job done

Year ok but what happens when something goes wrong or they try to sell there house and you have done a db change and not notified and not issue a proper test cirt what then

 

[telectrix]

assumingt that the work is done right, when coming to sell, the owner can have an EICR done.

 

[snowhead]

From the link above;

3.10

An installer who is competent to carry out inspection and testing should give the appropriate BS 7671 certificate to the building control body, who will then take the certificate and the installer’s qualifications into account in deciding what further action, if any, it needs to take.

Building control bodies may ask installers for evidence of their qualifications.


3.11
This can result in a lower building control charge as, when setting its charge, a local authority is required by the Building (Local Authority Charges) Regulations 2010 to take account of the amount of inspection work that it considers it will need to carry out.


3.12
Once the building control body has decided that, as far as can be ascertained, the work meets all Building Regulations requirements, it will issue to the occupier a Building Regulations completion certificate (if a local authority) or a final certificate (if an approved inspector).

 

[HARRYSPADGE]

Thanks for the replies fellas, so it seems that it is pretty much how I had understood it then.
I had read those sections of the regulations but was just interested to know what happens in the real world.
I am interested by the reply given by 'telectrix', so from what you state, as a DIYer with a good knowledge of electrics, and a copy of the 17th regs, GN3 and the on-site guide and an MFT, are you saying I could install additional circuits or replace my consumer unit myself and providing I test the circuits accordingly and keep records of the results, if and when I was to sell my property I could just have an EICR done, and providing this checked out I wouldn't need to notify building control ?
Surely if that's the case I'd be contravening the regs which state I should inform building control before carrying out any work ?
Please note, this is just a hypothetical question so please don't assume I am going to do what I've mentioned !

 

[Richard Burns]

If a person were to undertake installation of notifiable work and did not inform building control then they would be in breach of the building regulations and this is subject on conviction to a fine up to level five, in practice how would anyone know until the time came to sell the house by which time it would be too late to prosecute.
However if it came to it then building control could ask for the work to be ripped out.
Certainly if it is unsafe then this could well happen.
It is very unlikely that "a DIYer with a good knowledge of electrics, and a copy of the 17th regs, GN3 and the on-site guide and an MFT" would actually be able to ensure they have covered all the requirements as this does take time to understand, so it would likely be unsafe in some manner.

 

[Geoffsd]

a DIYer with a good knowledge of electrics, and a copy of the 17th regs, GN3 and the on-site guide and an MFT,

Is there such a thing?

 

[HARRYSPADGE]

Is there such a thing?

Well, yes. Me !
I work in the property maintenance sector and have always been very interested in electrics.
I'm looking to get qualified in the field of electrics so I can complete certain jobs myself without having to get a sparky in, so I have purchased all the books and an MFT in advance so I can get a head start with the additional knowledge.
Is this so hard to believe ?
On here I have been classified as a 'DIY' member as I'm not a qualified spark but I do have a far greater knowledge of electrics than the average DIYer.
I know it may be hard for you to understand but I am of the opinion that if you're going to learn something properly its worth doing it with the correct tools and information - I'm not scared to invest in my business if it will add another string to my bow.

 

[Octopus]

Well, yes. Me !
I work in the property maintenance sector and have always been very interested in electrics.
I'm looking to get qualified in the field of electrics so I can complete certain jobs myself without having to get a sparky in, so I have purchased all the books and an MFT in advance so I can get a head start with the additional knowledge.
Is this so hard to believe ?
On here I have been classified as a 'DIY' member as I'm not a qualified spark but I do have a far greater knowledge of electrics than the average DIYer.
I know it may be hard for you to understand but I am of the opinion that if you're going to learn something properly its worth doing it with the correct tools and information - I'm not scared to invest in my business if it will add another string to my bow.

In which case you should do some courses and join a scheme....

 

[Geoffsd]

Well, yes. Me !

Then you are a rare being.

I work in the property maintenance sector and have always been very interested in electrics.
I'm looking to get qualified in the field of electrics so I can complete certain jobs myself without having to get a sparky in, so I have purchased all the books and an MFT in advance so I can get a head start with the additional knowledge.

Then you won't be a DIYer.

Is this so hard to believe ?

Not now that you have told us.

On here I have been classified as a 'DIY' member as I'm not a qualified spark but I do have a far greater knowledge of electrics than the average DIYer.

Ok. It obviously depends on the definition.
'My DIYer' has only a screwdriver and a pair of scissors.

I know it may be hard for you to understand

Why?

but I am of the opinion that if you're going to learn something properly its worth doing it with the correct tools and information - I'm not scared to invest in my business if it will add another string to my bow.

Very good - but does that not prove my point?
How many other 'DIYers' do the same?

 

[trev]

Am I also to understand it correctly that some sparks see these organisation's as money making scams ?

How very dare you sir!
I am supremely confident that without these organisations the entire population of the nation would all die horrible, painful deaths every day, after all it is they who are the guardians of electrical safety and as such are best qualified to judge whether someone who drives a taxi or stacks shelves one week is capable of carrying out electrical work the next.
I'm also sure that Emma Clancy's background in retail HR makes her the perfect person to head up this organisation.
I'm also certifiably insane.

 

[HARRYSPADGE]

In which case you should do some courses and join a scheme....

Thats exactly my next move, just looking in to the best way to do it.
It all comes down to cost and time at the end of the day.
Being self-employed and extremely busy it's difficult to find the time for courses.
I've been looking at a 15 day course that's supposed to get you to the stage I need to be at to join a scheme but I know these courses are frowned upon !
What would you guys suggest ?

 

[HARRYSPADGE]

@Geoffsd,

It was nice to see a sensible reply, I was expecting to get my a**e chewed by some people telling me I didn't have a clue and that I shouldn't be touching electrics !

 

[Octopus]

Thats exactly my next move, just looking in to the best way to do it.
It all comes down to cost and time at the end of the day.
Being self-employed and extremely busy it's difficult to find the time for courses.
I've been looking at a 15 day course that's supposed to get you to the stage I need to be at to join a scheme but I know these courses are frowned upon !
What would you guys suggest ?

Well go on one and you'll find people who've never held a par of pliers!

Who do you use for your electrics at the moment? I'm guessing they won't want to "train" you but having a mentor at your stage is important!

 

[HARRYSPADGE]

Well go on one and you'll find people who've never held a par of pliers!

Who do you use for your electrics at the moment? I'm guessing they won't want to "train" you but having a mentor at your stage is important!

Yes, I can well imagine and these ARE the sort of people that would scare me if they got qualified in 15 days with absolutely no knowledge to begin with.

With regard to electrics at the moment, I use a local sparky when I have to.
He prices any electrical work separately and deals direct with the customer so I don't get involved.
A lot of the time I will shy away from jobs if there is electrical work involved due to the hassle or organising everything, that's why I want to get qualified to do it myself.
Most of the jobs I would get involved in electrically would just involve moving or extending a circuit/sockets which I am more than capable of doing myself but I obviously cannot sign it off properly which is annoying as I have to give the work away !

So do you think one of these 15 day courses would be ok for me to do as I have quite a lot of existing knowledge, and I'm swotting up on as much knowledge as I can by reading, and understanding, the regs, GN3 and general reading of this forum ?

 

[richy3333]

@Geoffsd,

It was nice to see a sensible reply, I was expecting to get my a**e chewed by some people telling me I didn't have a clue and that I shouldn't be touching electrics !

It's Sunday afternoon, everyones having a nap. They'll be among sometime soon...

 

[HARRYSPADGE]

It's Sunday afternoon, everyones having a nap. They'll be among sometime soon...

Yes, your probably right ;-)

 

[telectrix]

hmmmmm, if you are carrying out non-notifiable work, then you just need to be "competent". paper qualifications don't make you competent, but are back-up in case of trouble.

 

[HARRYSPADGE]

hmmmmm, if you are carrying out non-notifiable work, then you just need to be "competent". paper qualifications don't make you competent, but are back-up in case of trouble.

I thought that was the case but I'd like to start doing some of the notifiable work such as installing electric showers, shed/garage supplies, etc, so I'd be better being 'officially' competent.
That's why I was looking to do a course so I can then join a scheme.
Out of interest which scheme/s are the better ones to join ?

 

[trev]

Out of interest which scheme/s are the better ones to join ?

They're all parasites and should be put out of business but people see them as a necessity. Stoma are the cheapest of the lot, offering exactly the same product for around half the price of the others.