Led glow

[eckersecker]

Installed led spotlight on landing controlled by 2 way switch. When switched off it continues to glow. Presumably this is an induced voltage in the strapper. Is there any cure or even any need to cure it?

 

[telectrix]

capacitance in the cables. can be cured by fitting resistors or snubbers. recent thread on this very subject suggested 2 x 156k resistors in series across the affected lamp

 

[Deleted member 19807]

yes
no

loads of posts about this, a search will provide all the answers

 

[MarkieSparkie]

To save you looking through past threads I've reposted all the various parts of my previous posts in one:
​

Cable Capacitance Triggers GU10 LED Lamp.
​

This phenomenon is caused by the final circuit cable capacitance. It is more common in conventionally wired two way and intermediate switching circuits due to the wide spread use of 3+E cable and the extra parallel capacitance that creates.
The GU10 mains LED lamp is essentially a number of LEDs driven by a constant current driver powered by a mains rectifier and smoothing capacitor.
Even though the live feed to the LED lamp is switched OFF the cable capacitance allows leakage current to flow to the lamp slowly charging the smoothing capacitor in the lamp until the potential is sufficient for the constant current driver to "fire" the LEDs. This discharges the smoothing capacitor, the constant current driver stops, the LEDs extinguish and the process of charging starts again ... if conditions are suitable this continues indefinitely.
If the charge/discharge cycle (repetition rate) is short, the LEDs appear to be 'ON' continuously, however the energy is limited so the LEDs are only barely lit. Once more lamps are added the loading on the cable capacitance is such that the individual smoothing capacitors do not reach "firing" potential.
A tungsten halogen filament lamp doesn't suffer this problem because the filament is permanently loading the cable capacitance and any acquired charge is unable to overcome the thermal inertia.
A simple solution is to permanently discharge the cable capacitance by wiring two 160K ohm, 1/4W, resistors rated at >=250V, in series across L and N on the final circuit, it is good electronics practice to do this as close to the effected lamp as possible, if this is done across the switched L and N at the lamp holder terminals it allows simple switching out of circuit (or disconnection) for testing. Do not try to use a single 330K ohm resistor because this may fail due to voltage breakdown.
If the final circuit has a large number of switched lamps it may be pragmatic to connect the series resistors between permanent L and N at a convenient point e.g. at the DB to reduce the number of resistors required, however the number of points that will require treatment will depend on how the cable capacitance is distributed on the final circuit. Additional points particularly where 3+E is used for 2 way and intermediate switching may well require additional pairs of resistors.
If this solution is implemented a notice should be placed at the DB stating which final circuits are effected and which lamp holders have been modified, why and how.
A conventional GLS filament lamp doesn't suffer this problem because the filament is permanently loading the cable capacitance and any acquired charge is unable to overcome the thermal inertia.

 

[sparc]

To save you looking through past threads I've reposted all the various parts of my previous posts in one:
​

Cable Capacitance Triggers GU10 LED Lamp.
​

This phenomenon is caused by the final circuit cable capacitance. It is more common in conventionally wired two way and intermediate switching circuits due to the wide spread use of 3+E cable and the extra parallel capacitance that creates.
The GU10 mains LED lamp is essentially a number of LEDs driven by a constant current driver powered by a mains rectifier and smoothing capacitor.
Even though the live feed to the LED lamp is switched OFF the cable capacitance allows leakage current to flow to the lamp slowly charging the smoothing capacitor in the lamp until the potential is sufficient for the constant current driver to "fire" the LEDs. This discharges the smoothing capacitor, the constant current driver stops, the LEDs extinguish and the process of charging starts again ... if conditions are suitable this continues indefinitely.
If the charge/discharge cycle (repetition rate) is short, the LEDs appear to be 'ON' continuously, however the energy is limited so the LEDs are only barely lit. Once more lamps are added the loading on the cable capacitance is such that the individual smoothing capacitors do not reach "firing" potential.
A tungsten halogen filament lamp doesn't suffer this problem because the filament is permanently loading the cable capacitance and any acquired charge is unable to overcome the thermal inertia.
A simple solution is to permanently discharge the cable capacitance by wiring two 160K ohm, 1/4W, resistors rated at >=250V, in series across L and N on the final circuit, it is good electronics practice to do this as close to the effected lamp as possible, if this is done across the switched L and N at the lamp holder terminals it allows simple switching out of circuit (or disconnection) for testing. Do not try to use a single 330K ohm resistor because this may fail due to voltage breakdown.
If the final circuit has a large number of switched lamps it may be pragmatic to connect the series resistors between permanent L and N at a convenient point e.g. at the DB to reduce the number of resistors required, however the number of points that will require treatment will depend on how the cable capacitance is distributed on the final circuit. Additional points particularly where 3+E is used for 2 way and intermediate switching may well require additional pairs of resistors.
If this solution is implemented a notice should be placed at the DB stating which final circuits are effected and which lamp holders have been modified, why and how.
A conventional GLS filament lamp doesn't suffer this problem because the filament is permanently loading the cable capacitance and any acquired charge is unable to overcome the thermal inertia.

I've only come across this problem for the first time this week. As usual, there's some great stuff on the forum - particularly MarkieSparkie's explanation above.

Most of previous discussions about LEDs glowing dimly when turned off suggesting using 2 x 160k-Ohm resistance in parallel with lamp across SL and neutral. I've also seen references in these threads to Danlers CAPLOADs and 'snubbers'.

I've not come across anything since mid-late 2012, so I wondered if anyone has come across other solutions - are any manufacturers fixing the problem in the lamps?

I'm not too keen on idea of fitting discrete components into a shop-bought light fitting - seems there would be potential liability issues.

 

[telectrix]

fit the snubber across L and N in one of the JBs used to connect the T/E to the flex to the fitting. line products enclosures have more tghan enough room in them,