Lighting question

[billathome65]

I'm assuming this message needs manual approval as I'm unable to post in the DIY section I thought I would put it here with the idea it may be moved over to the DIY section. so at tleast the question is asked

In my kitchen there used to be two lights running of a double light switch as you enter the kitchen however this was changed some years ago by myself so each light ran individually off an individual switch from different place in the kitchen, simple enough.

However this was changed a while ago when one light was removed completely ( A centrally sittuated light installed ) and the wires at the second ceiling rose boxed / blanked off and pushed into the ceiling resess and the light switch was also blanked off as it still has power going to it as it was easier to do that than remove the existing wire.

Anyway here's the question

I have recently built a new pantry where one was removed many moons ago, which would benefit from having a light in.

( Edited because I realised the problem with my first idea )


The blanked off light switch which is OBVIOUSLY Perminant Live and switched live CANNOT be run up to the new rose as there would be no neutral Drrrrrrr note to self.

So am I left with the option of running new wire from the old ceiling rose to the new one ( which will involve damaging the ceiling ( just been replaced so not a good option. )

Run a new wire from the consumer unit to a new switch then a wire from switch to new rose which means I dont have to worry about the switch wire as the new switch only becomes live when the switch is flicked ( As the consumer unit is in the pantry this is not a biggy to do unless I forgot something with this option??)

Or just connect a light fitting to a plug and use a switched plug in place of a light switch ( Not ideal.


Any advice welcomed

Cheers Bil

 

[Guitarist]

New circuits require an electrical installation certificate, along with testing using a calibrated tester. Alterations to existing circuits require a Minor works certificate, along with testing using a calibrated tester. If you are planning to do more than a like-for-like swop, then I'd recommend getting a qualified electrician in to do the work correctly and safely.

 

[billathome65]

Cheers Knowing how much it costs to get a spark out for even small jobs I think I will go with my third option of wireing the light flx into a plug and using an existing plug socket I have in the pantry.

I take it I was correct in my thoughts on runing a new cable from the consumer unit?

I understand the need for checks for safety but I used to do full rewires with my brother and a skepticle about many of these new regulations.

But hey we all need to make a living there was a time when the martial arts was a closely gaurded secret open to a few deserving people. Thats moved over to home improvements now

Cheers anyway

 

[Marvo]

I'm not sure I fully understand your layout but I can give you some general pointers.

If you have a redundant ceiling rose that's going to be plaster over or otherwise inaccessible you should make the connections as 'maintenance free' using special connectors and enclosure.

You can install a light and put it on a plug, it's not ideal but it shouldn't be dangerous if it's done correctly, more often than not it just looks ugly and can be inconvenient because it's taking a socket.

The new circuit can be supplied from the CU but legally any new circuit requires notifying. If you don't notify then you could well end up in court if something goes wrong. Also in the kitchen you may need fire rated lights.

 

[telectrix]

getting a spark out for a small job is not expensive. at a guess, £40 call-out would include up to 1 hour, additional time at £25/hour, + materials. compare that with what you pay your local garage to service your car!!!

 

[Guitarist]

Cheers Knowing how much it costs to get a spark out for even small jobs I think I will go with my third option of wireing the light flx into a plug and using an existing plug socket I have in the pantry.

I take it I was correct in my thoughts on runing a new cable from the consumer unit?

I understand the need for checks for safety but I used to do full rewires with my brother and a skepticle about many of these new regulations.

But hey we all need to make a living there was a time when the martial arts was a closely gaurded secret open to a few deserving people. Thats moved over to home improvements now

Cheers anyway

For real?

 

[Marvo]

I understand the need for checks for safety but I used to do full rewires with my brother and a skepticle about many of these new regulations.

You have a very valid point, there's nothing worse than finding out there's pesky new regs to be followed when you halfway through a botch job.

 

[Octopus]

No doubt you'll find plenty of money for beer and smokes or for your shiney new LED TV.

 

[billathome65]

No doubt you'll find plenty of money for beer and smokes or for your shiney new LED TV.

Actually I don't drink nor do I smoke as for TV iv'e not watched a TV for years but thank you for those assumptions I take it your a Spark. It is fully understood respected and accepted that Sparks will not want to give advice to unqualified people as 1. They may be thick as pig **** mind you I know some uni guys who can't tie a shoe lace 2. They may botch up the job. 3 There are regulations in place. However this is the DIY section so the question would be why have a DIY section if your going to be rude to people asking qualified people like yourself for advice.

By the way when I moved into my home in 1995 I quickly discovered that the house had been rewired by a qualified electrition who did a total boitch job using small plastic conectors for mains wireing he had wired the nuetral wire spiking from one room to another to a live It took me ages to replace all the conectors with the corect round type and it was me who sorted the botched wireling upstairs. He also put the wrond ampage fuse in the breaker for the shower so under load it would trip out it was left to me to rectify. Hang on he was qualified Hmmmmmm.

the question was as the celing rose I could hsve spiked of from is up in the ceiling and inaccessible to basically extend the wire to a new rose what would be the best way to deal with putting in a new light run a new cercuit to a new switch then to the light or stick a plug on the end and plug it int a plug socket like a lamp.

Seems I may go with the plug option as some people are under the impresion that mear mortals such as myself are incapable of undertaking such a task unless we have 20 smokes 2 pints and a large screen TV. Oh hang on I work I aint on benefits so that counts me out.

o understand the issue is regulations so accept the points made

Cheers anyway

Bill

 

[Kate]

Seriously guys. His first paragraph was to say this should be moved to DIY section.

Sorry for the lack of welcoming commitee bill.

 

[BlueToBits]

Bill,
In my interpretation of the problem, you appear to know what is needed, but there would not seem to be an easy solution other than batteries or a plug in fitting. An experienced spark will probably have some ideas of how to fish a cable from the kitchen rose with minimal damage to the ceiling, but it is unlikely there will be no damage at all. There may well be another route but there are regulations about how this is to be installed and by whom and the certification that is required to track down and sue the installer should the work cause an insurance claim in the future. You can either choose to follow the regs or ignore them and break the law and risk paying the price. It's like driving without insurance. It doesn't matter how capable and experienced you are as a driver you will be at best fined if you are caught driving without insurance

If you can find a solution that does not involve connecting into the consumer unit or extending or modifying wiring in any part of the kitchen, you may be able to avoid the statutory parts of the regulations, but you can never avoid the mandatory parts. Whether you choose to ignore them is ultimately up to you, but you can't really expect a professional electrician to advise you to do this.
It may be possible to change the switch wire going to the spare switch for a neutral, looping the neutral at that switch, and extending from that point, but if the switch is in the kitchen you are in murky ground in respect of regulations.

 

[billathome65]

Cheers Guys and girls I have decided to go with the plug option as there is a switched socket in the pantry would have prefared to run to a light and Blue thats what I realised about the neutral in the old switch after I first posted and decided that was going to be far to much hassle.

I fully understand the regulations involved and have decided the plug to socket is my best choice. As for the insurrance side the spark who orriginally did a botch up job would lead any inspector to think that the job was done by a novice he had also used wire for plug sockets to spike the light that he connected the switch load to neutral so an inspector would look at me no matter what in the event of an insurance claim because surely a qualified spark wouldnt have done such a poor job

Anyway thanks for the time

Cheers Bill

 

[billathome65]

I am such a Divy.

Do you ever get those moments when you realise you have overcomplicated things and missed the obvious??

I was seing in my minds eye two load cables to the switch two neutrals and earth however when I open the blank box where the switch was you only see one load wire and then your mind goes into stupid mode.

I just bloody realised, head banging against the wall at this moment, The red wire I see is the load wire when I put in the new ceiling rose and run the wire to the switch guess what I have? Ohhhhhhhhhhhh another bloody red wire the chase wire that goes into L1 and to the ceiling rose.

God I'm a dick at times I was making an issue that wasn't there however the information I got from here you know who you are got me thinking more logically.

Arrrg.

I am officially a --- LOL

Bill