Loop circuits

[D00DY_T00DY]

Hey guys, did a loop circuit today going from a 13A connection unit to a ceiling rose and a 3 plate batten lamp controlled by a 1 way, 1 gang switch now it all works fine; Tested and then made live but i'm not sure how it works? so why certain wires connect here and there. It's easy following a wiring diagram but i want to know how it work any fellas on here able to explain it if you will? Appreciate the help guys

The live goes from the ceiling rose(First connection) down to the common on the switch through the switch up back to the ceiling rose and then goes to power the lamp, from the lamp the neutral goes to the ceiling rose and back to the source? is that right?


I know this is simple stuff but i'm proud of it before you lot give me grief *cough* GMES *Cough*

 

[Plonker 3]

Yes, your description sounds correct to me, a good way of learning is to also trace each cable out a single if you are struggling.

 

[D00DY_T00DY]

Yes, your description sounds correct to me, a good way of learning is to also trace each cable out a single if you are struggling.

Just had a quick think about it now i'm home and wanted some clarification on if i was right, thanks mate it should be all good now, i'll try the next exercise by drawing the diagram myself. Today i just asked the tutor where which wire goes.

 

[Plonker 3]

Nothing wring with drawing the circuits out yourself, I do it myself sometimes on site and I am sure I'm not the only one on here.

 

[Pete999]

Looks like you have a live pair (live and neutral) coming from the spur unit to the first ceiling rose. From the ceiling rose you have a a switched live and neutral going to the Batten holder, from the ceiling rose to the 1 way you have a live and a switched live, this cable ideally should be twin brown cores. The blue from the spur is connected with the blue going from the ceiling rose to the batten holder, this constitutes the neutral leg of the circuit witch will be connected to one side of the lamps. The live from the spur is connected to one of the brown cores of the cable going from the ceiling rose to the switch and will be connected to the loop in connection in the ceiling rose, solely as a means of connection, and is not connected to the lamp, The other brown core from the switch (the switched live) is connected to the switched live going to the batten holder, this is energized once the switch is operated to the on position, hope you can understand this, good luck in your training

 

[Simonslimline]

Power from the fused connection unit to the ceiling rose - (permanent Live & neutral)

A twin from the rose to the switch - (switch line & return)

0.75mm2 flex in the rose -( switched live & neutral)

Now if you wanted to make your lights switch 2 way you could take a 3 core from the light switch to another switch, connections would need to be altered but it is simple.

Take the brown out of common and put it in L2 instead next to the already terminated switched live in L1. Take the 3 core and terminate a core in L1 & a core in L2. terminate the 3rd core in to the common. Keep the common the same in both switches. The other 2 cores in the second switch can go either way round in L1 & L2 and the lights will still switch fine.

 

[D00DY_T00DY]

Nothing wring with drawing the circuits out yourself, I do it myself sometimes on site and I am sure I'm not the only one on here.

Yeah this was our first loop circuit so i had zero to little idea how it works I'm pretty sure of how it works now, thanks again.

 

[Plonker 3]

Yeah this was our first loop circuit so i had zero to little idea how it works I'm pretty sure of how it works now, thanks again.

Well its a good start, whats next a 2 way switch?

 

[D00DY_T00DY]

Power from the fused connection unit to the ceiling rose - (permanent Live & neutral)

A twin from the rose to the switch - (switch line & return)

0.75mm2 flex in the rose -( switched live & neutral)

Now if you wanted to make your lights switch 2 way you could take a 3 core from the light switch to another switch, connections would need to be altered but it is simple.

Take the brown out of common and put it in L2 instead next to the already terminated switched live in L1. Take the 3 core and terminate a core in L1 & a core in L2. terminate the 3rd core in to the common. Keep the common the same in both switches. The other 2 cores in the second switch can go either way round in L1 & L2 and the lights will still switch fine.

Making this circuit 2 way is our next exercise in workshop so thanks for putting me one step ahead

 

[Pete999]

Power from the fused connection unit to the ceiling rose - (permanent Live & neutral)

A twin from the rose to the switch - (switch line & return)

0.75mm2 flex in the rose -( switched live & neutral)

Now if you wanted to make your lights switch 2 way you could take a 3 core from the light switch to another switch, connections would need to be altered but it is simple.

Take the brown out of common and put it in L2 instead next to the already terminated switched live in L1. Take the 3 core and terminate a core in L1 & a core in L2. terminate the 3rd core in to the common. Keep the common the same in both switches. The other 2 cores in the second switch can go either way round in L1 & L2 and the lights will still switch fine.

If I can pick you up simonslimline the twin from the ceiling rose is the live and switched live, not the switch live and return.

 

[D00DY_T00DY]

Well its a good start, whats next a 2 way switch?

Yeah just had a look at my booklet then it's onto ring and radial socket circuits then finally steel conduit and drilling with some ladder training/assessment in between.

 

[Simonslimline]

If I can pick you up simonslimline the twin from the ceiling rose is the live and switched live, not the switch live and return.

Yes i see what you are saying Pete.

I was taught and have always called it switch line & return. Both mentor & college were the same on this.

 

[Simonslimline]

Yeah just had a look at my booklet then it's onto ring and radial socket circuits then finally steel conduit and drilling with some ladder training/assessment in between.

You will most likely find the lighting circuits the hardest to get your head around at first but it does not take long and it will all make perfect sense whichever way you have to wire it.

 

[D00DY_T00DY]

Looks like you have a live pair (live and neutral) coming from the spur unit to the first ceiling rose. From the ceiling rose you have a a switched live and neutral going to the Batten holder, from the ceiling rose to the 1 way you have a live and a switched live, this cable ideally should be twin brown cores. The blue from the spur is connected with the blue going from the ceiling rose to the batten holder, this constitutes the neutral leg of the circuit witch will be connected to one side of the lamps. The live from the spur is connected to one of the brown cores of the cable going from the ceiling rose to the switch and will be connected to the loop in connection in the ceiling rose, solely as a means of connection, and is not connected to the lamp, The other brown core from the switch (the switched live) is connected to the switched live going to the batten holder, this is energized once the switch is operated to the on position, hope you can understand this, good luck in your training

I believe i understood all that apart from one thing.
College can't afford fancy wires, it'll put them under we used one length of twin and earth and cut it the correct lengths ourselves with brown sleeving to signify the switched live and for the second bit solely for connection purposes? so what will be powering the ceiling rose will be the switched live coming from the switch when it's on? the live from the spur is just to go through the lamp to connect with the switch?

 

[Pete999]

Yes i see what you are saying Pete.

I was taught and have always called it switch line & return. Both mentor & college were the same on this.

If you think about logically the twin from the ceiling rose to the 1 way switch is: a permanent live feeding the switch the other core is the switched line.

 

[D00DY_T00DY]

You will most likely find the lighting circuits the hardest to get your head around at first but it does not take long and it will all make perfect sense whichever way you have to wire it.

Yeah i've done some sockets with an electrician(Yes he's fully qualified and double checked all work I did) and they're fairly simply. Lights and switches seem a bit more tricky hence why i've made this thread to try get my head around the basics of them and I'm a bit more confident on knowing how they work. thanks fellas

 

[Simonslimline]

Maybe they see it as a line feeding the switch (switch line) & then returning to the light (return)

I am more than happy with how it works and have no problem with it.

I guess we have both been taught different terminology thats all. I fully agree with you though.

 

[Pete999]

I believe i understood all that apart from one thing.
College can't afford fancy wires, it'll put them under we used one length of twin and earth and cut it the correct lengths ourselves with brown sleeving to signify the switched live and for the second bit solely for connection purposes? so what will be powering the ceiling rose will be the switched live coming from the switch when it's on? the live from the spur is just to go through the lamp to connect with the switch?

Nothing wrong with sleeving the switched live, I did say ideally you should use twin brown, nothing in the regs to say you have to.

You're a bit off with your second question, the live from the spur and the live feed to the switch are connected into the loop connector in the ceiling rose, as merely a means of feeding the switch, the switched live from the switch connected with the looped switched live going from the ceiling rose to the batten holder connect to the other side of the lamp.

 

[D00DY_T00DY]

Nothing wrong with sleeving the switched live, I did say ideally you should use twin brown, nothing in the regs to say you have to.

You're a bit off with your second question, the live from the spur and the live feed to the switch are connected into the loop connector in the ceiling rose, as merely a means of feeding the switch, the switched live from the switch connected with the looped switched live going from the ceiling rose to the batten holder connect to the other side of the lamp.

That's what i meant, i think i worded it wrong and i'm sure i understand it now only early in my course and i'm quite far ahead in workshop so plenty of time to get this all figured out.
Thanks again by the way.

 

[Pete999]

That's what i meant, i think i worded it wrong and i'm sure i understand it now only early in my course and i'm quite far ahead in workshop so plenty of time to get this all figured out.
Thanks again by the way.

Not a problem any time

 

[Richard Burns]

Pretty diagrams to try and explain the wiring structure:


Effectively the line (not live), neutral and cpc are all grouped near the light fitting (at the three plate) and there is a feed from the line down to the switch and the cable comes back from the switch to the switched line connection (also at the three plate).
The light fitting is just connected to switched line and neutral (and cpc, if required).