Main Bonding plastic pipes

[ultinator]

Hi again,

a kitchen has been ripped out, the main water stop was in there. it was all lead and copper water pipes and a main bond was to be run. However matey has lopped these pipes off and left about 4 inches of lead pipe coming in and then gone and replaced with plastic pipes. so would the small length of remaing lead pipe need bonding?

 

[Engineer54]

Hi again,

a kitchen has been ripped out, the main water stop was in there. it was all lead and copper water pipes and a main bond was to be run. However matey has lopped these pipes off and left about 4 inches of lead pipe coming in and then gone and replaced with plastic pipes. so would the small length of remaing lead pipe need bonding?

It will indeed need bonding to the MET i'm afraid, as it's still introducing an extraneous earth into the property!!

 

[sparkdog]

I think this could be an interesting thread.

 

[i=p/u]

Can you not put amalg tape round metal pipe as its minimum

 

[old_sparky_RE]

Without seeing the area and taking into account other factors that may have a bearing on my decision I have to go with whats in the BGB and GN 8:
411.3.1.1 & .2 ..... SHALL connect to the M.E.T extraneous-conductive-parts including...(i) water installation pipes.
GN8 ...... ALL e-c-p to be bonded to the MET.

 

[Geordie Spark]

Can you not put amalg tape round metal pipe as its minimum

Only in Ireland.

 

[i=p/u]

That just down the road, worked there before .

 

[Geordie Spark]

That just down the road, worked there before .

I was asked to work in Belfast and Cork a few times in the late '70's & '80's and always refused, but looking back I wish I had done Cork.

I was tarring Cork with the same brush as Belfast and I was wrong.

 

[telectrix]

corking post!

 

[ultinator]

this is a picture, i know theres a clamp on there, but its cream crackered and fairly seized up... and does it matter if the bond is before or after the stop cock, i know the continuity is there between the cock, but normally?.....i dont like typing cock so much either

 

[Sintra]

I was tarring Cork with the same brush as Belfast and I was wrong.

What's so bad about Belfast then?

 

[telectrix]

especially since i=p/u has moved to scotland. LOL. :waving:

 

[Geordie Spark]

What's so bad about Belfast then?

Well they seemed to be having a bit of bother with lunatics running around with guns and shooting people through the knee caps at the time and I'm rather fond of mine.

 

[Geordie Spark]

this is a picture, i know theres a clamp on there, but its cream crackered and fairly seized up... and does it matter if the bond is before or after the stop cock, i know the continuity is there between the cock, but normally?.....i dont like typing cock so much either

Plumber dropped one there.

That short bit of copper after the old siezed-up stop cock is the ideal place to fit a new one and then continue in plastic.

Must have been done by a spark who "knows a bit" about plumbing !!

 

[HandySparks]

That short bit of copper after the old siezed-up stop cock is the ideal place to fit a new one and then continue in plastic.

I quite agree, although I'd have preferred to see another inch or two of copper.

 

[Geordie Spark]

I quite agree, although I'd have preferred to see another inch or two of copper.

Well you can have that if you want.

The plastic straight coupler is demountable and reusable - it just unscrews - and the short bit of copper is connected to the stop cock with a compression fitting, so you only need a longer bit of 15mm copper and a new 15mm olive to reconnect to the stop cock, then shorten the plastic pipe - remember to refit the insert into it - and shove the coupler back onto it.

Personally, I would have prefered to have the whole thing in copper with not a bit of plastic anywhere on the job, but I'm old fashioned.

 

[Sintra]

Well they seemed to be having a bit of bother with lunatics running around with guns and shooting people through the knee caps at the time and I'm rather fond of mine.

Is that all

 

[ultinator]

hmm, i meant that the old bonding clamp is seized, I didn't try for long but the screw started to snap so i can't reuse that clamp, and as far as I'm aware the stop cock is old but functional still....

So that short bit of copper after the stop cock still needs a main bond?
I think the rest of the pipe before the stopcock is wrapped in something, im not sure. it was all a mess when i arrived as there was a gas leak with a drop of 8.5 milibar per whatever unit is used and the ceiling had been pulled down, revealing a second ceiling which was pulled down and not tidied very much at all

 

[Geordie Spark]

hmm, i meant that the old bonding clamp is seized, I didn't try for long but the screw started to snap so i can't reuse that clamp, and as far as I'm aware the stop cock is old but functional still....

So that short bit of copper after the stop cock still needs a main bond?
I think the rest of the pipe before the stopcock is wrapped in something, im not sure. it was all a mess when i arrived as there was a gas leak with a drop of 8.5 milibar per whatever unit is used and the ceiling had been pulled down, revealing a second ceiling which was pulled down and not tidied very much at all

OK .. sorry I thought you meant the stop cock was seized.

As for the gas leak .. that cannot be ignored!!

 

[Geordie Spark]

Is that all

Aye well .. I had been gigging around London during the '70s when they were trying to blow it up so I thought that since I survived that I wasn't going to tempt providence by stepping into the lions' den, but Cork I think I should have gone to.

 

[ultinator]

when we arrived, the woman of the house said, 'i think theres a gas leak because my husband tried to pull the gas cooker out, and we smell gas through the house now, but it cant be that bad, we haven't blown up yet!'

clearly a non smoking residence otherwise it may be different...

but erm the bonding thing? can it be omitted? its a pig of a run if so (its not an excuse just if it isnt needed then that would be cool)

 

[seawead]

regs say it has to be bonded (within 600mm of tap - surely that's on the plastic?!). but what's the chance of anybody ever being exposed to a live fault and touching this section at the same time? (is it next to an appliance?) if it's miles from any circuits / appliances, and a pain to get a bond to the c/u, then i would leave it. if it's right behind the washing machine, bond it

 

[i=p/u]

Or reasonably practical ..... Is the rest.

 

[Geordie Spark]

regs say it has to be bonded (within 600mm of tap - surely that's on the plastic?!). but what's the chance of anybody ever being exposed to a live fault and touching this section at the same time? (is it next to an appliance?) if it's miles from any circuits / appliances, and a pain to get a bond to the c/u, then i would leave it. if it's right behind the washing machine, bond it

"within 600mm of tap" could be as little as 1mm from the tap and that would be on the copper.

My view is that from the picture posted in this thread there is room for a bonding clamp on the copper IF IT IS NEEDED.

Another thought is what happens if that plastic at some time gets replaced with copper?

Would it need bonding then and if so why not now?

 

[SPARTYKUS]

GS- Cork is corking (Tel).

Dont bother with the Youth Hostel though.

 

[ultinator]

It will be under the kitchen units, and the sink will be near to to within 1-2m either side of the stopcock and obviously above it(i cant remember from the drawings) but the sink will be fitted with plastic pipes.

There aren't any circuits near except a socket outlet which will be in a unit 3-4 metres to the right to provide juice to a single oven.

I don't mean to reiterate what i ask, but it's just because the regs are so open to interpretation i would just like to hear you views.

thanks to all the responses so far...

 

[Zebra Stripe]

I'll probably be shot down for this but imo, whats the worst that could happen if its not bonded strictly in compliance, or even bonded to met at all.....if its realy difficult to run a protective bonding conductor from met to this small peice of extraneous pipe work, then I'd either supplementary bond it or box it in and note on EIC...in all honesty whats the worst that could happen if all pipe work etc is plastic and this piece is hidden under the sink.

 

[Engineer54]

It will be under the kitchen units, and the sink will be near to to within 1-2m either side of the stopcock and obviously above it(i cant remember from the drawings) but the sink will be fitted with plastic pipes.

There aren't any circuits near except a socket outlet which will be in a unit 3-4 metres to the right to provide juice to a single oven.

I don't mean to reiterate what i ask, but it's just because the regs are so open to interpretation i would just like to hear you views.

thanks to all the responses so far...

You asked a question and were given the correct answer. It's entirely up to you if you want to ignore that answer and happy being responsible for you're actions, or lack of them, depending on what way you look at it!!

 

[overskilled]

Just bond it and get it over with.....
If it wasn't for that stop cock being there, I would have considered boxing it in and adding a new stop cock with plastic each side....

Though in a recent site conversation Scottish Water said to me they are keen to remove lead water pipes supplying homes as they tend to leak (mainly as they are getting on in years....). Especially so when your doing building work anyway...SW guy I spoke to said if there had been a lead supply present they would have asked for a trench, installed a duct and alkathene pipework and then disconnected the lead pipework.

 

[i=p/u]

Il tel you one last time, if have plastic mains, you don't need it.......

 

[overskilled]

I have copper incoming pipework, though they were out about the drains (thankfully out of my way...)
and I was warned to look out for the incoming water main, and what to do if anything looks "unusual"...call them..

 

[Geordie Spark]

Just bond it and get it over with.....
If it wasn't for that stop cock being there, I would have considered boxing it in and adding a new stop cock with plastic each side....

Though in a recent site conversation Scottish Water said to me they are keen to remove lead water pipes supplying homes as they tend to leak (mainly as they are getting on in years....). Especially so when your doing building work anyway...SW guy I spoke to said if there had been a lead supply present they would have asked for a trench, installed a duct and alkathene pipework and then disconnected the lead pipework.

Yes that was the case here too.

I was working for a builder who was buying older properties and we were renovating them - and I mean "renovating" them - it was a joy to be working on them.

They were all connected to the street mains by lead piping and all we had to do was dig a trench from the building to the boundary and lay our plastic 25mm pipe from there into the building and our stop cock. The water company would dig from there out to their main and connect it to our pipe. We then just had to fill the trench.

There was no charge from the water company.

 

[overskilled]

SW reckoned they were responsible for anything pre house stop cock....oddly enough
Did say they reckoned the incomer could possibly run under the garage...but its unlikely and there is room to re-route it under the path...
Pretty sound bloke actually, seems they went to alkathene just after this place was built as the guy coming out lives a few towns over, in a house of very similar design but his incomer is alkathene whereas mine is copper....so must have been just prior to changeover...

 

[Geordie Spark]

SW reckoned they were responsible for anything pre house stop cock....oddly enough
Did say they reckoned the incomer could possibly run under the garage...but its unlikely and there is room to re-route it under the path...
Pretty sound bloke actually, seems they went to alkathene just after this place was built as the guy coming out lives a few towns over, in a house of very similar design but his incomer is alkathene whereas mine is copper....so must have been just prior to changeover...

Aye .. I think all the different water companies have their own ideas - same as the leccy companies so it can be literally a case of crossing the street and finding different rules apply.

 

[overskilled]

Warned its not overly difficult to split a plastic main with a spade....so be canny around 2 ft 6 down....if I dissappear sometime in the spring...I;ve been drowned by a burst water main....

 

[i=p/u]

No Fukn about, you don't need if plastic incomer.

 

[Geordie Spark]

Warned its not overly difficult to split a plastic main with a spade....so be canny around 2 ft 6 down....if I dissappear sometime in the spring...I;ve been drowned by a burst water main....

Aye .. that's the depth we were told to dig and use pea gravel and sand under and above the pipe.

I remember we asked about running it through a duct and were told there was no need.

 

[GMES]

I'd have preferred to see another inch or two

Exactly what our lass said the other night :freak: