B

bluearmy

Hi all

Haven't posted on here for a while but i'm just wondering if there are any latest regulations that anyone may know about, with regards to putting the main tails into the new metal DB's?

Is it ok to just grommet the holes they are going into? I'm working on a domestic house but am also curious if the regs change from domestic to commercial etc?

Cheers sparkies
 
Ah right is it a regulation that it must be done like that or a way similar? A grommet is not acceptable? Cheers for reply btw :)
 
They are entering a metal DB Lee. There are pre drilled holes in it, 20mm and i think 1 32mm hole in the centre
 
IP2X sides and bottom and IP4X on the top.
Cheers that's great. I was also thinking if the cables needed securing by the likes of a gland or if they are ok left loose. I know the grommet will prevent any damage but just not sure if a reg says they MUST be secured by the use of anything
 
Plain old fashioned common sense should be enough to tell you that the tails need to be adequately supported.

If you want to know exactly what the regulations say then buy yourself a copy and read them


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Cheers that's great. I was also thinking if the cables needed securing by the likes of a gland or if they are ok left loose. I know the grommet will prevent any damage but just not sure if a reg says they MUST be secured by the use of anything
on the bottom surface a suitably sized grommet, bush or tail gland will be fine although manufacturers instructions need to be taken in to account. If the earthing arrangement is TT then IMO it would be prudent to pass the tails through a purpose made nylon tail gland as adds strain relief for the tails. TBH I've stocked up on tail glands so pretty much been using them as my standard method when installing domestic metal AM3 boards.
 
http://www.remora.net/catalogue/nylon-cable-glands-plugs/GripLoc-Consumer-Unit-Tail-Kits
 
Also main earth should be brought through same hole as tails worth noting, see this mistake quite often! Nylon glands are stocked on the van now as gives a profesional and sterdy finish and no argument as to if tail hole is ip2x or ip4x depending on entry surface.
 
Cheers lads much appreciated been a great help

Also the reply about getting myself a regs book and reading it, is a valid one. I do have (of course) but i thought that's what this site was about, helping fellow sparks. So i just thought it would save me the time.

Anyway thanks again :flowers:
 
Also main earth should be brought through same hole as tails worth noting, see this mistake quite often! Nylon glands are stocked on the van now as gives a profesional and sterdy finish and no argument as to if tail hole is ip2x or ip4x depending on entry surface.

Why the earth too?
The earthing conductor should be carrying no current.
So it will not be able to cause an EMF into the metalwork as the neutral could.


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Why the earth too?
The earthing conductor should be carrying no current.
So it will not be able to cause an EMF into the metalwork as the neutral could.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Consider what will happen under fault conditions, the earth will be carrying a significant amount of current, certainly enough to cause an appreciable eddy current in the metalwork.

Plus of course there's everyone's favourite reason: because the regulations say you must do it!
 
Why the earth too?
The earthing conductor should be carrying no current.
So it will not be able to cause an EMF into the metalwork as the neutral could.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Have you been doing test sheets recently and ticking "protection aggainst electromagnetic effects" without thinking why.?
and as others have already said 521.5.1!
 
I think we are all getting a tad exited by this regulation, the problem with the BS7671 is it tries to stay concise 'believe it or not' while covering the range of domestic to industrial, the issue here is that you will never see any concerning issues domestic wise unless we are talking a large property with a hefty supply, as it goes anyhing 1ph and less than 100amps isn't ever going to see a notible/worrying effect from eddie currents if cables enter a metal enclosure through different holes (Unless they are metal sheathed).

With regards to the earth running through the same hole, well again this is a simplification of a more complex issue, if your Line(s) and if applicable Neutral are encased seperately in a non ferrous metal like individual steel conduits or singles SWA'a then this exagerates the effect hence the point made earlier about singles SWA not been permitted, earths been part of the collective is relatively new (explained later).

When you go 3ph and/or heavier loads than your average domestic is when this issue see's reality, I've seen loads of domestic breaches of sending L & N through seperate holes with no issue at all but simply because its not an issue that's not to say that the regulation should be ignored, yet I have seen banks of lighting over 3phase run to a M/C switch bank through seperate steel conduits where the total loading was only approx' 20amps per phase and the conduits couldn't be touched as they was that hot due to eddie's. Going back to the earth from an earlier comment, fault currents are not the reason why the relative earth for said circuit or supply earth run through the same hole, a correctly designed install would see a high fault current for a very brief period and no where near the time required to create any real issue with eddie currents, the reason is down to progressive trends of having more electronics and equipment producing harmonics or designed earth leakage leading to earth currents but again no issue at domestic level. It's designed to teach you to apply the regs on all occasions regardless as this hits home more and also covers problem of describing exactly when you need to apply the reg' and the complex calc's needed to do so....

So yes L/N/E needs to enter through the same hole to meet regulation, is it required is a different matter but its hard to calculate as too many variants can effect the outcome and the eddie current produced.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
It may be worth noting, that the bespoke meter tails glands being mentioned, are quite big. The wiska sprint gland for 25mm tails etc, are for example 75mm in length. Something to consider when looking to replace an existing CU. Wiska (there are other manufactures!) produce a membrane grommet kit, which be suitable in certain circumstances.
 
It may be worth noting, that the bespoke meter tails glands being mentioned, are quite big. The wiska sprint gland for 25mm tails etc, are for example 75mm in length. Something to consider when looking to replace an existing CU. Wiska (there are other manufactures!) produce a membrane grommet kit, which be suitable in certain circumstances.

The remora ones Lee linked to are much smaller than the Wiska ones. Better still, you don't need an adaptor to use 25mm2 tails through a 32mm knockout.
 

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Main cables going into metal DB
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