Mains Voltage LED downlights, low voltage?

BennyC · Apr 12, 2011

Hi,

Firstly hello! and secondly I hope this is the right sub-forum. I read the annoucement and this seemed the most suited.

I hope you don't mind, whilst I'm not an electrician, I have what is most likely a straight forward question I would appreciate some help with. I have a new build due to start soon of which I would like 'downlighters' fitted in. It's being built by a developer and whilst I have been in touch with the spark he is a bit hard to get hold of.

Initially I was happy to go for halogen until I realised how expensive they are to run and that there are LED fittings/LED bulbs available.

I'm a bit confused as what I read about halogens was that mains/240v didn't last particularly long and that LV/12 lasted longer and gave a better/brighter light. All well and good however I've now convinced myself that, despite the initial cost, LED is what I'm after.

I'm aware there are Low voltage LED bulbs in GU10 & MR16 fittings available to simply replace halogen bulbs.

I've also seen mains voltage fixtures:

Fire Rated Dimmable LED Downlight 7W =50W Chrome Warm White - Down Lights Direct

Edit: Also - http://www.fireratedlighting.co.uk/product-6w-led-fire-rated-down-light-warm-white-fr60610ssww.html

Does the LED fixture have a built in transformer to take it down to 12V? so in effect it is a low voltage fitting, just running off the mains with an internal transformer?

I read somewhere that the 'controller' or something to that effect can overload the LED bulbs with too many volts if they aren't an LED controller as halogen bulbs use more than LED bulbs and that for some reason too small a draw will result in the controller pushing out too many V's and damaging the LED's. Does this sound like nonsense? or is it something to be aware of.

All things considered would buying a specific LED fixture & bulb kit (like the one linked) be a better option? or would just setting up halogen fixtures and then buying LED replacement bulbs be sufficient?

I noticed the fitting I linked to only seems to take a GU10 fitting yet LED bulbs come in MR16 & GU10. Is the example I provided a bad choice? is one more favourable than the other for LED?

Thanks in advance for any help!

BennyC

DurhamSparky · Apr 12, 2011

I'm a bit confused as what I read about halogens was that mains/240v didn't last particularly long and that LV/12 lasted longer and gave a better/brighter light. All well and good however I've now convinced myself that, despite the initial cost, LED is what I'm after.

good quality LED is better 5w +

I'm aware there are Low voltage LED bulbs in GU10 & MR16 fittings available to simply replace halogen bulbs.

correct

Does the LED fixture have a built in transformer to take it down to 12V? so in effect it is a low voltage fitting, just running off the mains with an internal transformer?

you will have a ELV transformer/driver powering the unit totally separate to the fitting!

I read somewhere that the 'controller' or something to that effect can overload the LED bulbs with too many volts if they aren't an LED controller as halogen bulbs use more than LED bulbs and that for some reason too small a draw will result in the controller pushing out too many V's and damaging the LED's. Does this sound like nonsense? or is it something to be aware of.

not sure! LED technology is still new to me tbh!

All things considered would buying a specific LED fixture & bulb kit (like the one linked) be a better option? or would just setting up halogen fixtures and then buying LED replacement bulbs be sufficient?

the package you shown with a 6w Dimmable down light @ £29 is a good buy!
Units = £12 LED GU10= £15+

I noticed the fitting I linked to only seems to take a GU10 fitting yet LED bulbs come in MR16 & GU10. Is the example I provided a bad choice? is one more favourable than the other for LED?

Gu10 and MR16 are two totally different type of fitting!!
Gu10 = 240volts
MR16 = 12volts

my personal preference is always Mains rated gu10 down lights! (less things to go wrong) and a 7 w lamp will give off about 35-40w equivilant output on a standard gu10

Lofty · Apr 12, 2011

Hi,
I used a lot of the Halers EvoLED downlighters lately.
7.9W , direct connection to mains (driver is built in on each unit), 7 year warranty, and come in dimmable versions as well.
70mm cutout so about the same size as GU10's. Or you can get converter plates if replacing really olde style downlights.

Halers > Home

Cheers,
Lofty

nickblake · Apr 12, 2011

Im with lofty here cant beat them at the mo start at about £37.50 each but with the warrenty and running costs you soon get your money back shop around they may be cheaper , if i have to replace down lighters i will replace with these customers budget permitting that is

BennyC · Apr 12, 2011

Thanks for all the replies

So the mains rated LED lights get the thumbs up?

you will have a ELV transformer/driver powering the unit totally separate to the fitting!

Could you explain this a little more please? There would need to be a controller on each circuit? or it's just a case of hooking them up to the mains and any switches/dimmers? Just so I can price it up as I don't want to find I've forgotten something quite important!

Lofty · Apr 12, 2011

Hi Benny,
The Halers EvoLED are complete units i.e. the controller / driver is part of the fitting this allows you to connect them directly to mains. Other makes may need to have contollers.

Best regards,
Lofty.

telectrix · Apr 12, 2011

whoeheatedly agree with GU10 fit LEDs. cheapest option, more variety, no stupid transformers and drivers. i would go for the warm white LEDs though. the cool ones are too harsh for my liking.

Lofty · Apr 12, 2011

Yep to the warm white. Fitted some cool ones but cust said that with the bright white walls the lights looked too bright.

BennyC · Apr 12, 2011

Thanks for all the help chaps. The EvoLED's look ideal. As a rough estimate I'm going to be needing about 50. Does anybody know of somewhere offering a multibuy discount at all?

I've spoken to the electrician who is happy to do a first fix during the build and come back after completion to wire up & fit.

Are these reasonably straight forward to wire up & fit. As I'm quite capable of DIY, especially if all the cables are already there. He's offered to wire & fit for £15 per light which would be £750 for the lot. With the initial cost of all the lights at £2600 (£52 per dimmable) for what should be a reasonably straight forward job of cutting holes, wiring up and then connecting dimmers I could save a fair bit.

If it' not as simple as I thought then it's a small price to pay for saved ball ache!

Dunc · Apr 12, 2011

This place gives bulk buy discounts - LINK

The only thing to watch is that you get the correct dimmer to work with the LEDs. Most dimmers need a minimum of 40W to operate so the low loads associated with LED fittings can leave the dimmers thinking there is nothing connected resulting in flickering lights at low levels. Trailing edge dimmers usually solve this issue as some of the ones i've used only require 10W minimum load to operate properly. Varilight and Richmond both make trailing edge dimmers.

BennyC · Apr 14, 2011

Is anybody able to identify the recommended Lux levels/amount per room?

Living room
Kitchen
Bedroom
Bathroom

As I've been using the Halers utility on their site to plan how many lights I need per room but I'm unsure on the amount of 'Lux' I need to achieve.

I read that a living room should be around 150 but then also read it should be 300?

Thanks