Metal partition walls

[Welchyboy1]

Is it now a requirement to bond metal partition walls or use rcd protection for cables wired within it, when installed in a commercial environment?

I thought i read it somewhere in an amendment but cant find it again now?

thank you

 

[Andy78]

522.6.103 is the requirements for cables within metallic walls. Yes to RCD protection unless you fulfil one of the other requirements of the reg to avoid doing so.

 

[dingledong]

Now that is how a thread is supposed to be a question and a no nonsense answer

 

[Welchyboy1]

Yes thanks andy, that does give you the get out of under supervision of skilled and instructed persons for commercial environments, which this job would be under

does anybody bond metallic walls? I cant really see it as a requirement or regulation but its definatley something that could lead to a large chunk of live material in a building

would it be a good practice to supplementary bond at least?

 

[Andy78]

You should bond the exposed structural steel of a building and any accessible extraneous conductive part. I don't think the metal structure of the walls falls under this though.

Just because a setting is a commercial one does not automatically mean that the installation is under the supervision of skilled or instructed persons.

 

[Welchyboy1]

Just because a setting is a commercial one does not automatically mean that the installation is under the supervision of skilled or instructed persons.

thanks andy

I understand this and this job is definitely in that category, its only the lighting switch drops that would not be rcd protected
but im tempted to put them on rcbos too, as ive seen plenty of numptys drill into them anyways, supervised or not

 

[davesparks]

And an RCBO will stop it being drilled in to how?

 

[Pete999]

Just protect it with a RCD not that expensive is it and after all it's your name on the cert, safety first

 

[Resu]

And an RCBO will stop it being drilled in to how?

This thread was quite civilised until this reply! You know what he means!

 

[davesparks]

This thread was quite civilised until this reply! You know what he means!

What was uncivilised about that? Maybe I didn't phrase it very well but it's a genuine question.

How does an RCD assist in preventing someone from drilling through a cable?
The answer as far as I know is that it doesn't, so why is it the go-to method of protecting buried cables which might be drilled in to?

All it is doing is providing a means of reducing the danger which may arise, it does nothing to prevent it happening.

If the cable is protected an RCBO and someone drills through the cable shorting N to E rather than L to E or N then they will be no better off than if there was no RCD protection, there is still just as much fire risk from that fault even after the RCBO has disconnected the (Undamaged) L conductor!

 

[Adam W]

What was uncivilised about that? Maybe I didn't phrase it very well but it's a genuine question.

How does an RCD assist in preventing someone from drilling through a cable?
The answer as far as I know is that it doesn't, so why is it the go-to method of protecting buried cables which might be drilled in to?

All it is doing is providing a means of reducing the danger which may arise, it does nothing to prevent it happening.

If the cable is protected an RCBO and someone drills through the cable shorting N to E rather than L to E or N then they will be no better off than if there was no RCD protection, there is still just as much fire risk from that fault even after the RCBO has disconnected the (Undamaged) L conductor!

I suppose in the same way a seatbelt doesn't help prevent a collision.

 

[Welchyboy1]

What was uncivilised about that? Maybe I didn't phrase it very well but it's a genuine question.

How does an RCD assist in preventing someone from drilling through a cable?
The answer as far as I know is that it doesn't, so why is it the go-to method of protecting buried cables which might be drilled in to?

All it is doing is providing a means of reducing the danger which may arise, it does nothing to prevent it happening.

If the cable is protected an RCBO and someone drills through the cable shorting N to E rather than L to E or N then they will be no better off than if there was no RCD protection, there is still just as much fire risk from that fault even after the RCBO has disconnected the (Undamaged) L conductor!

Well, Let me explain it to you........ If the nail or screw hits just the live and then the frame, it will then energise the whole frame without operating the mcb or rcbo, and likely sit like that for some time, if someone now touches a part of this frame and forms a path to earth, then i for one would rather it be rcd protected than not

a plumber died like this and so did a young mum

its also likely that no amount of IR testing will find this kind of fault

 

[Resu]

What was uncivilised about that? Maybe I didn't phrase it very well but it's a genuine question.

How does an RCD assist in preventing someone from drilling through a cable?
The answer as far as I know is that it doesn't, so why is it the go-to method of protecting buried cables which might be drilled in to?

All it is doing is providing a means of reducing the danger which may arise, it does nothing to prevent it happening.

If the cable is protected an RCBO and someone drills through the cable shorting N to E rather than L to E or N then they will be no better off than if there was no RCD protection, there is still just as much fire risk from that fault even after the RCBO has disconnected the (Undamaged) L conductor!

Providing additional protection by means of an RCD won't necessarily help someone if they were to damage the cable but as you have mentioned it reduces the risk of danger. What more can we do? You can only make an installation safe to a certain point without it getting rediculous.

It seemed to me like you were having a dig by asking a what you did, apologies for interpreting it wrong.

 

[davesparks]

Well, Let me explain it to you........ If the nail or screw hits just the live and then the frame, it will then energise the whole frame without operating the mcb or rcbo, and likely sit like that for some time, if someone now touches a part of this frame and forms a path to earth, then i for one would rather it be rcd protected than not

a plumber died like this and so did a young mum

But if that cable had been protected with steel conduit or similar the damage would likely not have happened in the first place or else the protective device will have operated.

And if any part of that metal frame is exposed to touch it should be bonded.

I would not trust an RCD over an earthed metal protection any day of the week, as they get cheaper and cheaper they become less and less reliable.

 

[davesparks]

Providing additional protection by means of an RCD won't necessarily help someone if they were to damage the cable but as you have mentioned it reduces the risk of danger. What more can we do? You can only make an installation safe to a certain point without it getting rediculous.

It seemed to me like you were having a dig by asking a what you did, apologies for interpreting it wrong.

But it only reduces the danger sometimes and even then it might not work unless the test button has been pushed at the correct intervals.

A bit of steel conduit doesn't need its button pressed every 3 months and will stop the casual eejit attempting to put picture hook nails or b&q drill bits through it.