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Guest55

Evening men , dont usually come round this way as i do sweet F.A. the solar market.
anyways , just need a bit of general advice for a college project

the brief.....

you are designing the entire electrical installation for a 2 floor retail store , that has a DB on both floors ,
and will be having a 10 kW pv array on the flat concrete roof.

what equipment will i need for the pv system ? ( just in terms of electrical units , not concerned with roof fitting gear )
would you connect the system to the 1st floor DB ( nearer ) or back to the mains on the ground floor ?
what size cable you you consider using ? ( just a ball park guesswill do )
generally speaking , what sort of set up would you pro's be looking at fitting ?
many thanks.
 
3 phase I assume?

I'd prefer to install to whereever the actual incoming suppliers meter is so that I can locate the solar generation meter in the same place to make it more obvious where it is for meter readers and store managers who'll no doubt change through the years - I forget the exact wording of the guidance on this, but t at least has to be in an accessible location.

Then the question becomes where you're going to locate the inverter, which is going to be around 800mm x 1000mm and need around 2-300mm clear air around it, and a reasonably well ventilated space, and needs to be accessible. This will determine if you're running cabling for AC or DC through the building from the roof. If it's DC then my preference would usually be SWA externally, probably 6mm dual core with strings parallelled on the roof, but that's probably not your concern as long as there's an external route. If there's no option but to run DC internally, and you're doing it at first fix stage now, then IMO you want to be running it completely separated from all AC circuits in 6mm2 single core double insulated cables that are properly mechanically protected (earthing the armour on SWA doesn't work as a protection mechanism as the DC is a separated circuit), but should be avoided as far as possible.

Ideal solution for me would be inverter on plant room on top floor external wall so cable to roof can go out and up, with 10mm (probably) 3 phase cable (depending on distance) run down to the main distribution board, with a spare way left for it to connect in. If it's a particularly long cable run then you might need 16mm2, but I'd suspect 10mm2 would do the job - you're aiming for below 1% volt drop along the cable, but a bit over's usually ok unless the grid voltage is particularly high.

oh... college project? ok, download sunny explorer from SMA, it'll take you half an hour to sus out, but it has cable sizing as part of it - just pick out a 250Wp panel, x 40 panels in 2 strings of 20 on a 10,000TL inverter then have a look at the cable sizing.

kit wise, personally on commercial jobs we'd be looking at a remote meter / smart meter that uploads the meter reading to a web portal for remote monitoring (Orsis do ours), 16amp 3 phase MCB in the main CU (assuming it'd not be on a shared RCD - if there's shared RCD's then pull it out onto a new circuit from the tails via henley blocks to avoid nuisance trips), then meter, then rotary isolator, then 6-10mm cable depending on length, then terminate in rotary isolator at the location for the inverter and test the circuit. Would be perfect for us.

TBH though, usually we'd just ask the other electrical contractor to run the cable for us, and we'd definitely expect the contractor to discuss it with us first if possible.

some starters for you anyway.

eta - actually I just realised you said retail store, not supermarket, so talking of 10 and 16mm cables is probably overkill for the distances, and you're more likely to be looking at 4-6mm2
 
Last edited:
Hello Biff55,
I'm a Dutch installer, so maybe the UK specs are different. I would suggest the following (with estimates):
- 10 kW PV installation requires 10% more Wp, so 11000 Wp PV array's. With 250 wP panels (most common) you need 44 panels.
- I would split the 44 panels in 3 array's (15, 15 and 14 panels). V open of a common panel is 38V, V pmax is 31V.
So the max Volts of a array is 570V and the V pmax is 468, 468 and 436V. The I pmax is appr. 8,3 A.
This are very common figures for a PV array (we called it string) and will give no problems with most of the inverters.
- A 3F inverter is the best solution here (and not more 1F inverters), because in the max situation you have to handle 10kW power (gives at 3 * 380V appr 14,5 A). I would suggest as an example a Kostal Pico 10.1.
- Because the DC current is lower (8.3 A) then the AC current (14.5 A) the losses in AC are per meter cable higher then in DC. Therefore it is better to bring the solar in the building to the ground floor and keep AC as short as possible (in practice this is b llsh t, the building situation is leading).
- The inverter has a DC switch, that's a requirement in the Netherlands. We do not bring earth to the roof (UK...?). Normally we use MC-4 connectors. Solar cable is 6 mm2.
- The inverter requires a dedicated 3F+N fuse (we called it "Automaat") and an own dedicates YmvK cable. Depending on the distance I should say 5 * 2,5 mm2 (max 25m) or 5 * 4 mm2 at a longer distance.
- important here are of course the losses but also the V loss over the AC connection. The inverter has a V AC max and if you come above these Voltage the inverter stops working for safety and regulations reasons.
- In the Netherlands is a RCD not a requirement for PV.
I hope this will help you,
Regards,
Henry
 
Last edited by a moderator:
whast a fine example of trolling. i take my hat off to you biff. you're a star. reel 'em in.
 
Please translate this for me in normal English...., I don't understand a clue....

Trolling,,

Aimlessly posting on forums, just to increase the total post count, in Biffs case currently standing at 2287, but trying to get to 3000 I believe.

This may have been a serious question from him tho'.
 
biff serious???????? come on.

yep , this was a genuine enquiry for a real college project !

and thanks to the first 2 posters for taking the time to answer.

and i never troll the pv forum , theres not much to go on since the uk solar market sunk after the FIT payments were halved
;-)
 

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