nelson mandela

[iamelectric]

why did my newspaper have 8 pages of **** about nelson mandela and now he is never off the tv , i was always led to believe that he was a terrorist and responsible for a number of murders , so what makes him a great man?

 

[overskilled]

Because despite 27 years of harsh imprisonment (severely damaged vision due to forced labour in a chalk mine without eye protection, beatings etc) he preached reconciliation between whites and non whites.
SA was and is a messy situation, the big issue is corruption and crime, both go hand in hand....

 

[44ALLAN]

why did my newspaper have 8 pages of **** about nelson mandela and now he is never off the tv , i was always led to believe that he was a terrorist and responsible for a number of murders , so what make him a great man?

He's a 'freedom fighter' seemingly..........................lauded by the queen no less.
40 year time we'll be giving medals to those 2 murdering twXXs that butchered that drummer guy for their insight into the way of the world !!

 

[44ALLAN]

Because despite 27 years of harsh imprisonment (severely damaged vision due to forced labour in a chalk mine without eye protection, beatings etc) he preached reconciliation between whites and non whites.
SA was and is a messy situation, the big issue is corruption and crime, both go hand in hand....

'severely damaged vision' would have been accepted by some of the people he murdered probably !!!!!!

 

[Engineer54]

Massive world media hype put the crown of peace on his head, then everyone it seemed jumped on the bandwagon to serve their own purposes. At the end of the day the guy was an active armed terrorist that is known to have killed. If after doing his time in prison he did some good with his remaining life, all well and good!! He seemed to have done well for himself had several houses in the best parts of town and cities, and probably worth a good few bob in cash terms too. But the media being what it is, is now making him into something that is past any recognition of what he really was for the best part of his life!! lol!!

Probably the best person to pass comment is Marvo, seeing as this is his part of the world and will know far more than us on the real facts...

 

[Geordie Spark]

Gerry Adams seems to have done ok for himself too.

 

[Badged01]

"Freedom Fighter" or "Terrorist" -- depends if the "superpowers" like and support what you are doing!

 

[ian.settle1]

Gerry Adams seems to have done ok for himself too.

And Martin McGuiness

 

[Marvo]

Rest in peace Mr Mandela, truly a great man.

 

[i=p/u]

You wouldn't believe it guys, it's disgusting to watch the news at home and people telling you how to educate your kids and how to live your life known they killers or associates. They all get advisory roles and the likes when get out under some agreement or time served. It's never seemed normal to me.' Even shot police officers or bombed buildings. How can this be good practice ..

 

[i=p/u]

Is country's like china such a bad place, least the people know who's boss.....

 

[High Tower]

Any man that can be imprisoned for 27 years and take the turn the other cheek attitude on release is a bigger man than I!, if not for him, at the end of apartheid ther would have been civil war, and white South Africans would have been slaughtered, he embraced both sides, brought them together and built the foundations for what is South Africa today!.

He also played a part in the Northern Ireland peace process, Blair has gone on record saying so, he encouraged and guided, and took a massive interest!, read his words on the pace wall in Belfast!.

For that I personally feel gratitude, whatever he was imprisoned for, he spent the rest of his life fighting for what is right!, and please don't forget that a lot of the British view was deluded because thatcher the old witch had a real grudge about him while she played footsie with war mongers such as Pinochet.

Old man rest in peace, you really did do your duty!

 

[Essexboy7]

Any man that can be imprisoned for 27 years and take the turn the other cheek attitude on release is a bigger man than I!, if not for him, at the end of apartheid ther would have been civil war, and white South Africans would have been slaughtered, he embraced both sides, brought them together and built the foundations for what is South Africa today!.

He also played a part in the Northern Ireland peace process, Blair has gone on record saying so, he encouraged and guided, and took a massive interest!, read his words on the pace wall in Belfast!.

For that I personally feel gratitude, whatever he was imprisoned for, he spent the rest of his life fighting for what is right!, and please don't forget that a lot of the British view was deluded because thatcher the old witch had a real grudge about him while she played footsie with war mongers such as Pinochet.

Old man rest in peace, you really did do your duty!

Yes he played a part in the NI peace process,he advised the IRA to keep their guns so they wouldnt lose the threat of violence.He was a murdering piece of filth, the head of the military wing of the ANC.The only reason he wasnt released earlier was because he wouldnt renounce violence and thats the reason Amnesty International would not help him.Go and ask the families of the white farmer women who were gang raped to death or the blacks who were covered in petrol and burnt to death or the little children blown up in the bus bombings directly on his orders what a great man he was and see what reply you get

He was a murdering communist piece of filth and they should have put a rope around his neck years ago

 

[telectrix]

phew. no beating round the bush there. that'll start ww3.

anyway, i was just wondering what they're going to do about all them datsun engines, gearboxes and body shells round the back of his place , as the japanese thought he was nissan maindealer.

 

[overskilled]

The state security services weren't exactly clean either, numerous massacres (I say massacres as they weren't overly selective regarding those they killed....
Both sides got their hands dirty big style, though some of the worst atrocities on the ANC side were committed AFTER he was imprisoned.....

 

[telectrix]

so that's why my parcels were always late.

 

[moospark]

Desperate times, My Dad took us over there in 1968 (had my first birtday on the boat). There was a deal where Engineers etc. could go to S.A. or Oz for a tenner, He chose S.A. 'cos he liked the music. The Ozzies were/are just as big racists anyway. My mother got "black balled" at the office she worked at because she let it out that she let our nanny use the same bath as she bathed her children in, she, Winnie by the way, lived in a corrugated shack in the townships, no running water. Anyway, don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes.

 

[not clever]

Bored of the Mandela stuff now!

 

[telectrix]

i've not even got any of his records.

 

[odawire]

Yes he played a part in the NI peace process,he advised the IRA to keep their guns so they wouldnt lose the threat of violence.He was a murdering piece of filth, the head of the military wing of the ANC.The only reason he wasnt released earlier was because he wouldnt renounce violence and thats the reason Amnesty International would not help him.Go and ask the families of the white farmer women who were gang raped to death or the blacks who were covered in petrol and burnt to death or the little children blown up in the bus bombings directly on his orders what a great man he was and see what reply you get

He was a murdering communist piece of filth and they should have put a rope around his neck years ago

The black people in SA never asked to be treated like s**t.

 

[Badged01]

Bored of the Mandela stuff now!

Big yawn here too!

 

[i=p/u]

I've just finished work with guy who loved there30 years , he said thee own people treat them like ****. No1 else.

here in uk we say treat people how you like to be treated. I'd say South Africa is different ball game....

 

[cmac70]

A man with a vision. Once a happen there was a lone female. How things can change if you believe In what you stand for. How things can change.

 

[odawire]

I've just finished work with guy who loved there30 years , he said thee own people treat them like ****. No1 else.

here in uk we say treat people how you like to be treated. I'd say South Africa is different ball game....

You have heard of apartheid? Have a think about it before you come on here talking nonsense, everyone on this thread putting down Mandela is talking out their arse. The government treated the black people like **** and for a long time the world accepted it, anything that happened while they were fighting for equality was fair game, end of

 

[odawire]

Desperate times, My Dad took us over there in 1968 (had my first birtday on the boat). There was a deal where Engineers etc. could go to S.A. or Oz for a tenner, He chose S.A. 'cos he liked the music. The Ozzies were/are just as big racists anyway. My mother got "black balled" at the office she worked at because she let it out that she let our nanny use the same bath as she bathed her children in, she, Winnie by the way, lived in a corrugated shack in the townships, no running water. Anyway, don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes.

Ten pound Poms! My parents nearly went for that, I was very nearly an aussie.

 

[Badged01]

I was very nearly an aussie.

Struth, you had a lucky escape .....

 

[Badged01]

.... anything that happened while they were fighting for equality was fair game, end of

Dangerous, once you start along the path of the means justifies the end then we do have problems! Every terrorist organisation is vindicated in what it does, because ultimately that is what it becomes -- terrorism (unless of course the superpowers support you and you are known as 'freedom fighter' but the same carnage occurs! )

 

[odawire]

Dangerous, once you start along the path of the means justifies the end then we do have problems! Every terrorist organisation is vindicated in what it does, because ultimately that is what it becomes -- terrorism (unless of course the superpowers support you and you are known as 'freedom fighter' but the same carnage occurs! )

Well this is the problem, Mandela was a terrorist. The press and the governments of the world lead us to believe that things are either right or wrong, black or white. But intelligent people can see that it is not the case. The worlds problems are too complicated to be that simple, however in the case of SA I would say they were clearly justified in their actions.

 

[moospark]

Ten pound Poms! My parents nearly went for that, I was very nearly an aussie.

He stuck it for three years, ran up a load of credit, hired a car, did a big old road trip (only 24) and buggered off back to Gateshead. Snow and outside netties were a bit of a shock to me, not to mention turning up for the first day of school talking like an alien.

 

[tidyboiler]

Ten pound Poms! My parents nearly went for that, I was very nearly an aussie.

Loads of my relatives went over to NZ and some to Oz, then swapped Countries. So most are in NZ now because they reckon the standard of living is so much better there. They have never looked back really and feel sorry for us that didn't go on the tenner trip. Only one of them wants to come back to the UK but sometimes I wish we had gone too.

 

[Badged01]

in the case of SA I would say they were clearly justified in their actions.

Racism, sexism etc ... all have no place in this world (IMHO) but I still dont agree with violence being an acceptable solution -- although ultimately once politics fails thats whats happens!

But in doing so we have to accept things for example like cruelty to animals being wrong. It then becomes fair game for activists to kill/blow up people being cruel or simply employed in industrys testing on animals. Once we open the can of worms of accepting violence we can hardly call foul when we dont like whats happening elsewhere .... but hang on isnt that we have, a difference between say 'freedom fighters' and 'terrorists'? One is doing good killing innocent people and the other is doing bad killing innocent people?!?!

 

[odawire]

Racism, sexism etc ... all have no place in this world (IMHO) but I still dont agree with violence being an acceptable solution -- although ultimately once politics fails thats whats happens!

But in doing so we have to accept things for example like cruelty to animals being wrong. It then becomes fair game for activists to kill/blow up people being cruel or simply employed in industrys testing on animals. Once we open the can of worms of accepting violence we can hardly call foul when we dont like whats happening elsewhere .... but hang on isnt that we have, a difference between say 'freedom fighters' and 'terrorists'? One is doing good killing innocent people and the other is doing bad killing innocent people?!?!

Yea, I do agree with what your saying but remember, the violence was never accepted he spent 27 years in prison for it! I just felt I had to say something when people were trying to argue he was a bad person. The comparison to him as a terrorist is a fair comparison, but we need to remember he wasn't fighting for some weird religious ideals, he just wanted equality..

 

[moospark]

Yea, I do agree with what your saying but remember, the violence was never accepted he spent 27 years in prison for it! I just felt I had to say something when people were trying to argue he was a bad person. The comparison to him as a terrorist is a fair comparison, but we need to remember he wasn't fighting for some weird religious ideals, he just wanted equality..

Top point taking religion out of the equation.

 

[High Tower]

Really interesting debate!, I applaud you guys for keeping it civil!.

Just a few points,

The ANC campaign of gorilla warfare did not start until after Mandela was imprisoned and hidden from the public,

Mandela was not imprisoned for terrorism he was imprisoned on charges of treason for standing against the regime!

Mandela should be remembered for forgiving his captors, embracing the government a and preaching reconciliation, without Mandela when you end apartheid, you end up with civil unrest, just like Mugabe and Zimbabwe.

As for him advising the IRA, I have never heard such tripe, he preached reconciliation and put pressure on the government, which resulted in the Good Friday agreement.

 

[ipf]

Sad loss, IMO.

Didn't they name a block of flats in Peckham after him, 30 years ago ?

 

[dingledong]

most israeli leaders from 1950 onwards were also terrorists
killing young british soldiers
but its all forgotton now

 

[dingledong]

anything that happened while they were fighting for equality was fair game, end of


how about the mau mau
they were fighting for freedom