never mind part p

[bugsy]

Had a call from a very good friend who used to work us with a plea for help ,
His employer ( on the tools ) was doing an install at an injection moulding plant and had a few problems so would I go and give him some advice .

When I arrived they had installed cable tray at roof level (500mm between purlins and tray) they had to run 1x 240mm 4 c xple , 1 x 185mm 4c xple and 95mm 4c xple ) on the tray , no rollers, no jacks,
luckily there was a forklift they could use so 1 hour later had the pull's sussed. where are the CPC'S I enquired, - dont need em there SWA come the reply - really CSA complies does it ( did.nt want to go any further than asking him to verify)
Then he showed the their new panel - Was I impressed ( nice Eaton panel )
Then he showed the the cable route - not a bad bit a tray work ( 2m missing round a opening ) but not bad, then he showed me is intentions 11no 185mm tri-rated tied to the tray ( in free air - literally around aforementioned opening ) what about mechanicle protection ( Nah ) the floppy bit ( that's alright )
Then to cap it all was'nt goint use lugs on the eaton outgoing MCCB'S ( THE ONE'S HE ORDERED DID'NT FIT SO JUST A WASHER)
After being there 4 hours he asked what he owed me - well I thought guy's a ----er I let him decied - offered me £ 20.00 and asked if I could get him some labour to help with cable install on the Saturday and Sunday - offering the princely sum of £ 100.00 per day
I started laughing ( really) told to him to stick his £ 20.00 in a help for heroes tin an left

Apparently EDF are not comfortable connecting to their newub - station

 

[Guitarist]

£20 whole pounds? That's a Princely sum for only 4 hours work. Never, ever let the customer decide. They will base what you are worth on minimum wage.

 

[Guest55]

.........Then to cap it all was'nt goint use lugs on the eaton outgoing MCCB'S ( THE ONE'S HE ORDERED DID'NT FIT SO JUST A WASHER).........

I can see this ending in tears in the near future.

 

[yellowvanman]

where are the CPC'S I enquired, - dont need em there SWA come the reply - really CSA complies does it ( did.nt want to go any further than asking him to verify)

Careful, because it most cases it is. The ECA did a study and if I remember correctly up to 400mm was ok, although 240mm (I think) was borderline but still ok!

 

[snowhead]

Careful, because it most cases it is. The ECA did a study and if I remember correctly up to 400mm was ok, although 240mm (I think) was borderline but still ok!

http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...ulations/23288-can-we-use-armour-swa-cpc.html

 

[sedgy34]

i would have taken his £20 and put in the tin myself, sounds like a nob!!
when asked how much do i owe you, i sometimes say just a drink if ive been there around an hr!! its down to them then on how much they appreciate you sorting there problem out but if im there 4 hours its a 1ner almost half a day where do you go after cant start another job can you day is gone.

 

[yellowvanman]

http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...ulations/23288-can-we-use-armour-swa-cpc.html

If you read the file Lenny posted it refers to BS7671 Table 54G which is the 16th Edition version, for 17th Edition its Table 54.7 and is worst case, if you used the adiabatic calculations are even better!

 

[mogga]

never mind it ending in tears thats asking to end up in smoke fire or atleast a nice BANG!!! no lugs WTF Iv seen some right cowboy installs but never like this sounds As for 2mtr hanging cables that will save him money on tywraps and tray
Id be going to their client and suggesting this guy is overstretching himself as he obviously doesnt have a clue

 

[johnboy6083]

i think there is a difference between in-experience and downright incompetence. Some-one who has nio experience of that type of install, but who has lots of othere relevant experience will still be able to complete a good job, but which may not be to standard practice, but will still be safe, and comply with BS7671. An incompetent fool will just do anything they can to get it working and get paid.
Not having thew right size lugs is noexcuse.
The other day i turned upto a job, where we had a shutdown. The treatment works wasto be shut down for 6 hours in order for me to move a load of equipment from one building to a new adjacent one. When i looked at the job (i hadnt seen it before) i realised that i would have to cut the lugs from the cable in order to ungland it, and pull it back through a duct. I needed ne lugs, but i didnt have 185mm lugs on the van, or even the dies for the criomper we had. half an hour later after making lots of phone calls, and we had a supplier 150miles away who had both items in stock, and off the apprentice went to fetch trhem and bring them back.
there is always a safe and compliant way, its just finding it!

 

[Engineer54]

http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...ulations/23288-can-we-use-armour-swa-cpc.html

This a far better all round table to use.... As you can see, all those sized SWA cables conform in the 4 core configuration!!

Table for 90[SUP]0[/SUP]C Thermosetting SWA cables operating at 70[SUP]0[/SUP]C.

Conductor CSA​	Minimum CSA of SWA to meet 54G​	CSA of armour 2 core​	CSA of armour 3 core​	CSA of armour 4 core​
1.5​	3.4​	16​	17​	18​
2.5​	5.7​	17​	19​	20​
4​	9.0​	19​	21​	23​
6​	13.6​	22​	23​	36​
10​	22.6​	26​	39​	43​
16​	36.1​	41​	44​	49​
25​	36.1​	42​	62​	70​
35​	36.1​	62​	70​	80​
50​	56.4​	68​	78​	90​
70​	79.0​	80​	90​	131​
95​	107.2​	113​	128​	147​
120​	135.3​	(125) ​	141​	206​
150​	169.2​	(138​	201​	230​
185​	208.6​	(191) ​	220​	255​
240​	270.6​	(215) ​	(250)​	289​
300​	338.3​	(235) ​	(269)​	(319)​
400​	451.0​	(265) ​	(304)​	452​

---

Now pulling these cables in with the use of a fork lift is just asking for trouble, what's the betting all these cables have been stressed and stretched, not to mention lumps of sheath taken out of the cables pulling them round bends etc!! lol!!!

EDIT...Forgot to point out figures in brackets Don't meet CPC requirements