new build

[mcm]

asked to price a new build on the plans it shows two flats ground floor eith own front door. two flats first floor with a door onto stairs then two entrance doors, then top floor flat is size of whole building with own front door on ground floor.

ground floor entrance all have own door, the question is what to do regarding smoke alarms? do they need to be in the stairs to the first floor flats.

the other thing is their will not be a landloards supply so what do you do regarding smoke alarms in comunal areas without one?

any thoughts?

 

[kevben]

Hi mcm, can't really understand what your trying to say regarding the layout. Been doing lot's of job's like this so please try explain again mate.
Also why no Landlord supply - do tennants share costs?

 

[accordfire]

asked to price a new build on the plans it shows two flats ground floor eith own front door. two flats first floor with a door onto stairs then two entrance doors, then top floor flat is size of whole building with own front door on ground floor.

ground floor entrance all have own door, the question is what to do regarding smoke alarms? do they need to be in the stairs to the first floor flats.

the other thing is their will not be a landloards supply so what do you do regarding smoke alarms in comunal areas without one?

any thoughts?

Oy Vey.

Okay, HMO 101.

It's an HMO. That is, a building with more than one family/dwelling.

That means it has to comply with certain rules, regulations, and requirements, set out for HMO's.

Key among those if fire safety - covered off in Building Regs, Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order, and various other bits of legislation.

What this means is that there are requirements placed on both the landlord (or owner) AND on tenants (or occupiers).

Landlord is overall responsible for Fire Safety - which at a basic means he will need to prove he has taken all reasonable steps to reduce or eliminate risk from fire. Commonly, this means fitting some sort of fire detection system, possibly some emergency lighting, and possibly other fire measures too.

You tell us that there are at least three floors to this building. That tells me right away that any smoke detection/fire alarm will require to comply with BS5839-6, Grade A. If there is an independent fire escape fitted to the exterior of the building, and accessible from all flats, and LD3 category system will be sufficient, and if not, LD2.

Essentially, what that, in turn means, is you need a "proper" fire alarm system, and not just smoke detectors. That system should have a permanent independent supply - e.g. from a landlord's board, and dedicated solely to the fire alarm, including wired in fire resiting cable from board to spur. Spur should also be such that it cannot be tampered with - e.g. needs a tool to isolate, or is inaccessible to casual tampering.

I don't see how, to be honest, you're going to get away without a communal/landlord's supply - at some point you're going to have issues without it - communal lighting, emergency lighting (which is likely with five separate tenants), and a fire alarm - for the sake of sticking in a four way board, it's not worth trying to go without.

 

[kevben]

My thoughts exactly accordfire !!!! mcm hasn't made sense!!!

 

[topquark]

Also fire doors on ALL 3 floors as well.

 

[kevben]

The list is endless as we all know!!!
This Job sounds like another botch job - AVOIDING ALL REGS.

 

[mcm]

Hi kevben

The ground floor has 2 flats, the first floor has 2 flats and top floor has 1 flat.

The ground floor flats have their own front door that is from the outside walking straight into the flat, one for each flat.

The first floor flats have their front doors at the top of a flight of stairs. To access the stairs their will be a door on ground floor leading to the staires, leading to the two front doors at top of staires. Only the two tenants will have access to the staires.

The top floor flat will have its own door from ground floor up staires walking into top flat. Only top floor tenant will have access to the staires.

The question was with no landlords supply how would you put smoke alarms and emergency lighting in the communal areas ( the staires to the first floor flats only part of building being communal area )

Hope this make sense

Thanks

 

[accordfire]

Hi kevben

The ground floor has 2 flats, the first floor has 2 flats and top floor has 1 flat.

The ground floor flats have their own front door that is from the outside walking straight into the flat, one for each flat.

The first floor flats have their front doors at the top of a flight of stairs. To access the stairs their will be a door on ground floor leading to the staires, leading to the two front doors at top of staires. Only the two tenants will have access to the staires.

The top floor flat will have its own door from ground floor up staires walking into top flat. Only top floor tenant will have access to the staires.

The question was with no landlords supply how would you put smoke alarms and emergency lighting in the communal areas ( the staires to the first floor flats only part of building being communal area )

Hope this make sense

Thanks

Let's try this again.

IRRESPECTIVE of who has which front door, there are still obligations and legal requirements to satisfy fire safety requirements - Building regs, Regulatory Reform, HMO rules.

You have a building which is occupied (or will be) by multiple tenants/owners. Fire DOES NOT only travel via doors. For this reason, it doesn't matter who enters the building at what point.

You still MUST consider that if a fire starts in one of the ground floor flats, the UPSTAIRS flats need damn fast notification to have a chance of escape - ESPECIALLY if their escape route is down a set of stairs between the two ground floor flats, one of which is on fire!!!!

THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT CAN BE PLAYED AT.

At the risk of sounding kind of rude - it doesn't matter a DAMN if the developer doesn't want a communal or landlord's supply - it's up to him to decide in the absence of such where the permanent supply for a communal fire alarm system (and lighting) is coming from - and to be honest, if he's willing to scimp on that, I'd run a long mile from any development he did.

The fact remains that you have a three floor building WITH HMO requirements. Therefore you MUST fit a BS5839-6, Grade A system - in other words, one which effectively requires with most of the requirements of BS5839-1. To do less will be breaking the law. That system must also cover all flats and communal areas.

Given there are at least two of the flats using one stairwell, there will ALSO be a requirement for emergency lighting, signage, and quite possibly, fire extinguishers in communal areas too.

The common denominator in all of this is NOT front doors or stairs, but the fact that the building AS A WHOLE is one building with multiple occupancy.

The developer needs to face that fact - and the fact that if he's playing the game fairly, he needs some sort of communal supply - which he then charges back via the lease or service charge, as most HMO buildings do.

It isn't really negotiable.