New kitchen electrical safety question

[Peter2009]

I've just had a new kitchen fitted and the installer came out several months ago before work was due to start and checked out what needed doing and at that time he never advised me that I needed extra power plugs.

He started the work last week and advised me that I would need to purchase a 5 meter extension and run it round the back of the kitchen to the dishwasher as there isnt a plug.

I wanted to get some advice if this is safe and if the installer should have taken the time to install the extra power point.


Thanks

 

[Spoon]

When having a large job done such as a kitchen it is a good idea to sit with the designers explaining what you want. Positions of sockets is pretty important, not just for a dishwasher but for all the other small appliances as well.

This is not down to the customer to sort out. This should have been done by the company who he bought the kitchen off.
This should have been done before a price for the kitchen was given.
How can you quote for a new kitchen when you don't know if the electrics, water pipes, waste pipes ect need altering?

 

[Spoon]

@Peter2009 , as James The Spark1976 has asked in post #9 "Check the paperwork on the original quote and order, it should state weather the electrical works are included or to be charged extra etc."
Have you checked the paperwork?

 

[JK-Electrical]

A few months ago I was asked to quote for electrical work to be done as part of a kitchen refurbishment. Imagine my horror when I arrived at the customer's house to discover that all the kitchen units, cupboards and appliances had already been fitted. The kitchen fitters had a go at the wiring, but left behind a complete lash-up. After having carried-out a brief visual inspection and carried-out some testing, I decided that this wasn't a job that I would be interested in quoting for.

Homeowners are almost certainly storing-up problems for themselves whenever they allow non-qualified, non-professional personnel to carry-out electrical work in their homes. More so up here in Scotland where anyone can advertise themselves as an electrician and carry-out electrical work, and where plenty actually do.

Last week I was asked to quote for some electrical work to be done as part of a bathroom refurbishment. As the proposed work would require alterations to be made to the bathroom lighting circuit, I checked to see if RCD protection and main bonding were present. The bonding was there, but there was no RCD protection ..... just an old Wylex board containing rewireable fuses. I explained to the customer what RCD protection is and why it would need to be provided in this instance. "But the kitchen fitters who did the electrical work in my new kitchen never said anything about these RCD things", she replied. Here we go again, I thought to myself.

I asked the customer to show me the electrical work that had done in the kitchen. I wasn't at all impressed with what I was saw. 10 downlights had been installed. So I dropped three for inspection. As per usual with kitchen fitters, the terminations had been made into choc block connectors and taped over. Even so, basic insulation was showing. From my sample, I concluded that the other 7 downlights would most likely have also been incorrectly terminated. As these downlights were on the same circuit that supplies the bathroom lighting circuit, I wasn't prepared to do any work in the bathroom until the defects with the downlights were rectified. I explained to the customer that I couldn't possibly work on a circuit that I knew to be defective. I don't think she fully understood what was being explained to her.

I also discovered that the kitchen fitters had installed a new circuit to supply the hob. They ran the wiring inside mini-trunking, but didn't use fire-rated clips anywhere in the run. And to put icing on the cake, the homeowner hadn't bothered to apply for the building warrant that was required for the electrical work. I didn't bother asking her if the kitchen fitters had given her an EIC in respect of the electrical work they carried-out because I already knew what the answer would be.

And so I had no choice to but to exercise the sensible option and walk away. Frankly, I'm sick and tired of coming across the sub-standard, untested, uncertified and often outright dangerous electrical work that has been carried-out by kitchen and bathroom fitters. I'm not interested in even quoting for remedial works in these scenarios. I do sympathise with the problems that the OP is facing and hope that he finds a satisfactory resolution. I strongly advise him to ensure that whoever does any future electrical work in his kitchen is a actually a qualified, professional electrician. Demand to see evidence of qualifications!

 

[Midwest]

Happens all to often I think. Had a good working relationship with my fitters.

On another unconnected forum, there was a plumber showing off his work in bathrooms. I queried something about the electrical work. Seems he does all his own 1st fix etc, then gets a sparky mate in to test it and sign it off. Even connects up the odd fan or few lights, making additions. He said it’s only a few wires, nothing complicated.

 

[Intoelectrics]

This is not down to the customer to sort out. This should have been done by the company who he bought the kitchen off.
This should have been done before a price for the kitchen was given.
How can you quote for a new kitchen when you don't know if the electrics, water pipes, waste pipes ect need altering?

Though I agree, it all depends on what the kitchen supply company quoted for. As you rightly re-iterate in your next post, the details of exactly what the kitchen supply company are responsible for should be stated. I have come across kitchen companies that just offer supply & install and in their small print it states that alterations to M&E services are not included. If the kitchen company are responsible for the complete job then the customer has every right to complain and get the job rectified free of charge.

 

[Midwest]

Who did the design? When I did the electrical install for a kitchen refurb, the kitchen designer position the appliances. It was then down to me, as the electrician, to ensure there was suitable points/supplies for the appliances. If the kitchen supplier did the whole thing, someone like Magnet, they are sometimes responsible for the whole lot,

Though I agree, it all depends on what the kitchen supply company quoted for. As you rightly re-iterate in your next post, the details of exactly what the kitchen supply company are responsible for should be stated. I have come across kitchen companies that just offer supply & install and in their small print it states that alterations to M&E services are not included. If the kitchen company are responsible for the complete job then the customer has every right to complain and get the job rectified free of charge.

When having a large job done such as a kitchen it is a good idea to sit with the designers explaining what you want. Positions of sockets is pretty important, not just for a dishwasher but for all the other small appliances as well.

If like some people, whose kitchens are a fashion statement and are paying the price of a small fortune for their bespoke kitchen, they deserve to sit back, and let everything to fall into place for them.

Then there's some, that want to skin a fart. In that case, they need to keep a fine eye on the details. That said, I've missed the odd socket for a cooker hood before now. Silly billy, but I put it right FOC.

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

Installing a new socket under the kick boards on the ring is surely a better option here. Id imagine though the kitchen company if a large company like Howdens etc will not have allowed for electrics and assumed the client would sort it out for themselves.

Whenever doing kitchen installs im always sourced by the homeowener as instructed by the kitchen company.

 

[Baddegg]

Installing a new socket under the kick boards on the ring is surely a better option here. Id imagine though the kitchen company if a large company like Howdens etc will not have allowed for electrics and assumed the client would sort it out for themselves.

Whenever doing kitchen installs im always sourced by the homeowener as instructed by the kitchen company.

Howdens only sell the kitchen on to the fitter....wickes,wren etc offer a full fitting service.......I’ve made loads of em good

 

[pirate]

I'm such a pedant...so am intrigued by the idea of a 5 meter extension cable...
I suppose the meters would be volts, watts, amps maybe, but what about the other two?

 

[Intoelectrics]

Thanks, I will probably put a complaint in as I wasn't advised that i needed another plug socket.

Hi Pete, you are right to complain about this provided that it was indeed the Kitchen supply company's responsibility. A good kitchen designer would generally make good suggestions and advise that you may require additions/alterations to your M&E services. This said I have come across many inexperienced designers who are just out of college and with respect haven't a clue.
You haven't stated in this thread exactly who was responsible for the electrical design of this install. Again, an experienced electrician, (like many of the folk who have commented on this thread) would have asked to see the kitchen design and then advised/designed the electrical services to suit your new requirements.
Either way it was a poor job done, but to be fair mistakes can be made and should be rectified satisfactory. In my opinion, though the extension cable solution might well be ok & safe to use, it is a poor cop out.

 

[Spoon]

I'm presuming that by the lack of reply from @Peter2009 to @James the Spark1976 question in post #9 and me asking it again in post #17 that the electrical work may not be included in the new kitchen or it is not the responsibility of the kitchen supplier.

 

[DPG]

As Spoon says, we need some replies or we are getting nowhere.

 

[littlespark]

I don’t know if this makes things worse, but Howdens are now stocking electrical and plumbing bits so your local handyman can fit a complete kitchen in one go without worrying about getting other trades in.
The stock in their catalogues are just what would be needed to move a few sockets in a kitchen, no sign of any rcd’s... just sockets, switches, back boxes and cable. All MK accessories... so I guess it saves a trip to Homebase for the fitter.

What I did laugh at was the sockets shown were round edge... the cooker switch and dp switches were square edge....
brand new fitted kitchen, nice new units and shiny worktop...complete with mismatched electrical accessories.

 

[Spoon]

I don’t know if this makes things worse, but Howdens are now stocking electrical and plumbing bits so your local handyman can fit a complete kitchen in one go without worrying about getting other trades in.
The stock in their catalogues are just what would be needed to move a few sockets in a kitchen, no sign of any rcd’s... just sockets, switches, back boxes and cable. All MK accessories... so I guess it saves a trip to Homebase for the fitter.

What I did laugh at was the sockets shown were round edge... the cooker switch and dp switches were square edge....
brand new fitted kitchen, nice new units and shiny worktop...complete with mismatched electrical accessories.

Do they not sell 5 meter long extension leads?? That's a bit naff..

 

[littlespark]

Do they not sell 5 meter long extension leads?? That's a bit naff..

No... but they will sell 2.5t&e in 10m coils, a socket and a plug top.