new ligthting no earth

[long512]

new to domestic trade,

got a couple of small job offers for starters, went for a look today but the client wants new wall lights fitted and new ceiling fitting put up.
trouble is old wylex 3036 board, is other side of farm house thats been re decorated throughtout and theres no earth for lighting.
looking in the regs i cant find a reason why i cant, but wanted to know if it would be frowned upon to fit a surface mounted rcd spur of the sockets to accomadate no earth
and provide protection for new cables??

any advice/ideas cheers!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

pull in a seperate 4.0mm CPC for the lighting circuit.
whats the existing lighting fittings here?...class 1 or 2s?
if class 1s get em dropped...

 

[long512]

yeah, want to pull in a new earth but they dont want the flooring lifted again. cables i fit will be lucky to go below the render, its an old farm house built of whatever woz at hand so they will need rcd protecting.
the fitting i removed today for my own piece of mind woz class 1. put a plastic ceiling rose up.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

yeah, want to pull in a new earth but they dont want the flooring lifted again. cables i fit will be lucky to go below the render, its an old farm house built of whatever woz at hand so they will need rcd protecting.
the fitting i removed today for my own piece of mind woz class 1. put a plastic ceiling rose up.

well done.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

i would be pulling in a seperate CPC here....it`s a minimum of 4mm as its not in containment (mechanical protection)...

- - - Updated - - -

does the existing cable IR ok?

 

[long512]

i'm not sure mate. went today wid the builder for a look, just had me tool bag not me megga. they had the rose to hand - but "really cant see what the problem is"
do i not have to fit an rcd though to protect the new cables i will be fitting?
they want sockets done too but they were rewired a few years back into a new haeger board so i can retro fit an rcbo into that, but the lights are in that older wylex board that i could change out, its just supposed to be a simple "starter job"
then again nowt ever is simple!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

any new install will have to be to the current eddition of BS7671...so, are these cables surface run or buried?....
and what are the fittings you intend to install?
whats the earthing arrangements?

 

[lauriehurman]

Hi Long 512

My 2pth

Make sure they select class 11 for the ceiling lights.

Make sure they understand that if they want wall lights you have to be able to run the cables, that means either a new earth cable or powering the wall lights off the socket ring (and the switch wires that will involve) you may find this is less disruptive than running the 4mm CPC from the other side of the house.

I would be spending my powers of persuasion getting them to pay to substitute 1361s for those 3036s (you can buy direct swaps).

Hope that helps.
Laurie

 

[richy3333]

i'm not sure mate. went today wid the builder for a look, just had me tool bag not me megga. they had the rose to hand - but "really cant see what the problem is"
do i not have to fit an rcd though to protect the new cables i will be fitting?
they want sockets done too but they were rewired a few years back into a new haeger board so i can retro fit an rcbo into that, but the lights are in that older wylex board that i could change out, its just supposed to be a simple "starter job"
then again nowt ever is simple!

Good reason to fit hager boards and not Wylex - obsolescence. That and dodgy wylex breakers a couple of years back

 

[long512]

tnanks laurie,

i want to fit a rcd spur to supply the new wall lighting and ceiling light, off the socket ring in the room. i cant see anything in the regs that wont allow this, and if i make note and attach to the cu for future i think it should be alright???
they have fully decorated the house upstairs with new flooring in the bathroom that i would need to lift to get the earth wire to the lighting cct, as all the joist run the wrong way.
your advice to fit class2 cieling lights is good. i'll make them aware of this when they are selecting there fittings, that way i could leave that cct alone, i was gonna reccomend plug in wylex mcb's instead of the fuse wire.
what you think?
thanks

 

[telectrix]

can't see anything wrong with taking a 5A RCD FCU off the socket circuit.

 

[long512]

thanks telectrix! thats what i was hoping to hear.

great advice from you all!

 

[lauriehurman]

Good luck
The 1361s cost about £7.50 each. The plug-in MCBs cost over £20 each. You also can't get the outer cover back on over the MCBs.

Laurie

tnanks laurie,
i was gonna reccomend plug in wylex mcb's instead of the fuse wire.
what you think?
thanks

 

[daniel mead]

As your running off the ring for the lights via a FCU wouldn't it be cheaper to RCBO the sockets up instead of buying an RCD FCU?. That way when you change all the sockets for new, the RCD protection will already be in place. It will save you over £35 for the RCD FCU.

www.meadelectricalservices.co.uk

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Hi Long 512

My 2pth

Make sure they select class 11 for the ceiling lights.

Make sure they understand that if they want wall lights you have to be able to run the cables, that means either a new earth cable or powering the wall lights off the socket ring (and the switch wires that will involve) you may find this is less disruptive than running the 4mm CPC from the other side of the house.

I would be spending my powers of persuasion getting them to pay to substitute 1361s for those 3036s (you can buy direct swaps).

Hope that helps.
Laurie

laurie....
if the circuit meets disconnection times (Zpn) for BS3036s then it wouldn`t be a priority...would it.....
the person ordering the work is better spending money getting a CPC made available....