NIC? NAPIT? ELECSA? Which one?!

[Welchyboy]

Have I had a bad experience with them ? sort of yes

Go back to times prior to part p and (Eca aside) they were the only industry-wide body that upheld standards,it was a body to uphold the standards by approving a company to use its logo
It had/has, the "Qualifying supervisor system", which was necessary at that time, because of practicalities involved with large commercial and industrial installation

The onus then, was for the contractor to uphold a standard themselves that ensured continued approval and to retain the benefits of that approval.
It had its faults,but in general,it was the best that could be expected of a body for electrical contractors, albeit being there as a consumers protection organisation

Stroll on to the part p years and the advent of Elecsa, and also Napit(from a purely testers/members scheme)
Competition to its monopoly of attraction for these contractors,mainly individuals working in domestic only began

They set the trend and the standard at that time, by permitting the industry to degenerate to its lowest level of individual competence, by accepting the minimum entry requirements of the government list of qualification asked for of an individual for entry
They decided to chase the numbers and the money

Their worst crime, in my opinion, was to totally destroy any chance of regulation being successful and beneficial to electricians, by permitting the QS system to be their model for domestic part p
The bottom rung entry and the Qs system meant an avalanche of succesful entrant companys to their new domestic installer scheme,who may have had little or no form in the industry

What on earth a "domestic installer" is supposed to mean, I really cant understand,there are "electricians" and those electricians should be able to operate in all sectors,however the term electrician has now degenerated from a respected trade, to a bit part add on for other trades with this domestic Niceic monster that has been let loose in the trade

So now we have,instead of a respected skill, which was once the top of the tree,a trade reduced to a wobbling mess, with "no skill" new entrants, supervising even less skilled employees, all operating in a trade that needed dedication, time and experience to master, and its all thanks to that abomination of an organisation the Niceic

Yes I have had a bad experience with the Niceic,I have seen a trade I loved and was respected, destroyed by the very organisation who should have kept it where it belonged, at the top of that tree of skill set

To be honest that's the way I feel about the whole part p thing, your either electrically competent(electrician) or your not! but surely one group is no better than another and the government has allowed this to happen whereas they should have nominated the Nic or the ECA to design and run the scheme without interference and give them the monopoly like corgi/gas safe , by letting every chap and his brother open up a part p scheme then this has created a total circus of business competition between them,all fighting over our business, and the main way to appeal to the most amount of customer base is have the lowest requirements to join, and a cheaper cost.
As I said I have been with Elecsa and personally their assessment was a joke, I found the Nic more thorough but by no means hard enough, if you ask me, but none of them will turn around and say 'sorry mate your just not good enough come back in 5 years when you think know what your doing and we'll try again', but that's more the part p beast if you ask me

On a side note That's another reason I went A/C in the first place as my pride couldn't handle the fact I've got 'domestic installer' written on the side of my van, as you said what's that??

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Hi

I guess one point re NicEic is the point that they were there at outset, leading the way, so there is a certain responsibility that came with that monopoly.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Ps, I don't have anything written on a van!!!

 

[DaveyD]

Napit two years - no problem. Payment this year over three months.

 

[rich.250]

Napit two years - no problem. Payment this year over three months.

Have you ever had any of the work refused non sense cos your not NIC??

 

[DaveyD]

Have you ever had any of the work refused non sense cos your not NIC??

I dont advertise so I would not know. I'm word of mouth and three builders. Sorry, that's not a conclusive answer for you I know.

 

[Welchyboy]

Have you ever had any of the work refused non sense cos your not NIC??

sorry i didnt mean this as much with housebashing, its been more really with commercial work, before i was with the NIC i lost out on quite a few good jobs
due to not having AC status

one, i even won the tender and was starting the following week(around £20k refurbishment)on a final email i was sent about payment shedules it said at the bottom 'NIC certs are to be received before final payment will be sent'.....phone them up to query this and they said 'what do you mean, your not on the NIC approved roll?' i wasnt, i lost the job and it made me sound incompetant, that was the final straw
and now at least i know i wont be refused any more work on those grounds

for those of you that havent had this problem, your lucky, but believe me it does happen!!!

 

[imago]

before i was with the NIC i lost out on quite a few good jobs
due to not having AC status

You don't have to be with NIC to be an approved contractor, ELECSA do the two levels of membership too.

I'm afraid you can add me to the list of people with the opinion that the NIC can boil their corporate arses. Aside from the historic selling down the river angle, there is the service they provide for the money you pay them. ie None. At least the others will offer assistance, contact numbers, legal advice etc etc should it be required.

Being ELECSA approved contractor as opposed to a NIC approved contractor hasn't cost me a single commercial job. On one occaision I was asked "are you on the NICEIC role of approved contractors?" I replied "No. I went for the higher level membership of approved contractor through ELECSA/ECA." I figured that if the scam providers can bullsh1t the public with fabricated standards, meberships and benefits, then so can I.

 

[rich.250]

sorry i didnt mean this as much with housebashing, its been more really with commercial work, before i was with the NIC i lost out on quite a few good jobs
due to not having AC status

one, i even won the tender and was starting the following week(around £20k refurbishment)on a final email i was sent about payment shedules it said at the bottom 'NIC certs are to be received before final payment will be sent'.....phone them up to query this and they said 'what do you mean, your not on the NIC approved roll?' i wasnt, i lost the job and it made me sound incompetant, that was the final straw
and now at least i know i wont be refused any more work on those grounds

for those of you that havent had this problem, your lucky, but believe me it does happen!!!

It does happen indeed!!
Thanks for the response.
I had an insurer tell one of my customers the EICR I done on there property wasn't worth the paper it was written on as you are not a qualified spark without doing your nic exam!!
And they won't accept it.
This is where the problem lies.
Insurers!
And the fact they think it's some kind of qualification. LOL

Anyway. I wasn't all that pleased. Lol.

 

[Welchyboy]

You don't have to be with NIC to be an approved contractor, ELECSA do the two levels of membership too

Errm....not really the same thing are they? Elecsa is for domestic work and part p, the equivalent of a nic domestic installer and is assessed as such
Full ECA membership is pretty much the equivalent of AC and is equally accepted, If not with greater benefits actually!!

 

[edexlab]

I'm also with NIC simply because it's a more recognisable brand, I worked for a firm which was a member of another scheme provider and was present at the assessment which was a joke in comparison with an NIC visit I'd also been on , so when I went on my own decided that for commercial reasons it would be with the NIC thinking it the more credible, so two years as a domestic installer simply because I thought I'd need to be a bit more established for AC status.

A couple of months ago I saw a young lad from a firm I'd worked for who'd failed his exams around 5/6 times running around with the domestic logo on his van, same day I arranged to have the approved upgrade as I didn't want to be in the same club as someone with his standards of work etc.

I had the inspection at short notice, ie they phoned on the monday wanting to come next morning so I thought do or die etc and did it.
Got to say though I was disappointed really that it was a bit too easy , I really cannot understand how companies are needing to have revisits etc unless you are scrutinised more the larger the firm , I would say that I've a good standard of workmanship,knowledge etc but only that which should be expected from anyone claiming to be a tradesman, I have found them to be ok in all my dealings with them but for all the talk of promoting their members to the public I've seen no evidence of this ever.

I know a few people in other organisations and the concensus is that things are being dumbed down across the board so it probably makes little difference who you join these days.

(Hats off to the ECS who won't give me a graded card for lack of an NVQ they seem to be the only ones not dropping their standards and the mad thing is I know carded blokes who are really clueless ! but thats another story)

 

[imago]

Errm....not really the same thing are they? Elecsa is for domestic work and part p, the equivalent of a nic domestic installer and is assessed as such
Full ECA membership is pretty much the equivalent of AC and is equally accepted, If not with greater benefits actually!!

I know what you mean, and to an extent I agree. The problem is that the assessments are pants and 'approved contractor' is just a random title that means nothing in the industry or to the customer. If they are interested enough to take note, then there is no way for the man on the street or in an office to differentiate between "ELECSA approved contractor" and "NICEIC approved contractor". It's simple enough to prove the level of customer knowledge by asking them what NICEIC stands for.

There is no vetting or testing system for any of them which is worthy of the name. If they were serious about testing the standard of workmanship they would randomly contact customers and ask for a site visit without the electrician being present. That way they could gauge how good or bad you were by the only things which count. Quality of workmanship and adherance to standards. They won't of course, because it would use up too much of their fees.

So as many have said before, we are left in a situation where we are forced to spend money on worthless memberships and may or may not get a particular job depending on the way the wind blows, wether you have a membership, and if so who's sticker you have.

 

[Welchyboy]

I know what you mean, and to an extent I agree. The problem is that the assessments are pants and 'approved contractor' is just a random title that means nothing in the industry or to the customer. If they are interested enough to take note, then there is no way for the man on the street or in an office to differentiate between "ELECSA approved contractor" and "NICEIC approved contractor". It's simple enough to prove the level of customer knowledge by asking them what NICEIC stands for.

There is no vetting or testing system for any of them which is worthy of the name. If they were serious about testing the standard of workmanship they would randomly contact customers and ask for a site visit without the electrician being present. That way they could gauge how good or bad you were by the only things which count. Quality of workmanship and adherance to standards. They won't of course, because it would use up too much of their fees.

So as many have said before, we are left in a situation where we are forced to spend money on worthless memberships and may or may not get a particular job depending on the way the wind blows, wether you have a membership, and if so who's sticker you have.

Yes I do totally agree, you can end up with muppets, No matter who they are registered with, as it's all primarily driven by ££££££

Which is no doubt why personal recommendation is and always will be the best way to be successful

My point was if must pay out every year for a registration just so I can go out and work, then I may as well get one that at least may benefit me in some way

I'm not singing from the trees about the Nic by any means, don't misunderstand me, I have walked into plenty of jobs , and seen plenty of pirs done by supposed Nic approved contractors that have been utter toilet!

 

[SparkyJoe]

I looked into this

elecsa - domestic idiot scheme
NAPIT domestic, - idiot scheme
NAPIT full scope. Possible nicec alternative? £600?
niceic domesic installer - idiot scheme
niceic approved contractor £1100+

I know which im going with first.

 

[DaveyD]

The NAPIT full scope drops to well under £400 after the first year. I think it's £370