No bathroom RCD

[yellowvanman]

Some numpty has put in a ceiling fan with a pull cord above a bath - ceiling is getting very damp and apparently water keeps dripping out, I guess due to condensation in the duct.

Customer (tenant) wants me to put in an in-line fan, and as it doesn't have a fan isolator switch, add an appropriate switch.

Old Wylex board, TNCS.

My thinking is what I've been asked to do doesn't infringe current regs. Fan is outside the bathroom, my only query is if I put in a pull isolator switch for the fan, is that required to be RCD protected? If so, can put a switch outside the bathroom just below the ceiling above the door. In which case no concealed wiring and not in a special location.

Thoughts? I would prefer to put in a pull switch! Have also suggested the tenant tells the landlord that CU upgrading would be a good idea.

 

[sparksburnout]

Dave, I think we are in some sort of conflicting agreement here. You are probably right about BS7671, but personally I think it has been taken to stupid levels domestically. As you have stated, the average householder does not want additional crap littering the newly installed offering from porcelainacossta or whatever the posh bog outlets are called, they just want wall to wall bling. Most fans are on timers and activated by the light switch, which is another topic.....In 99% of visits to work on clogged up fans Mrs Smith just sits downstairs watching Jeremy Kyle and comes no where near the bathroom, I have never felt that it is remotely likely that there would be a dangerous situation. If I did I would isolate the entire circuit feeding the fan at the CU. Personally, for in-line fans (these might be similar to online ones) mounted in the loft, I would just put them on 3 or 4 way click connectors so you just unplug the entire thing. As you intimate, I cannot see why this causes so much concern technically when it is always so simple practically.

 

[davesparks]

Like you I put them on click connectors. That way I can connect the flex to the fan outside of the loft and spend the minimum possible amount of time in the loft full of itchy-poo

I offer the customers the fan isolator at low level of they want one, but avoid putting them high level unless actually specified.

 

[bigspark17]

I don't think they are, but if you want to comply then they should be.
Bs7671 makes no distinction between domestic and any other installation (except the idiotic non combustible reg)

Fitting fan isolator switches above doors for online fans is ugly and pointless. If you want a useful isolator fit it next to the fan, preferably in the form of a plug and socket connection for easy disconnect and removal.
If the customer wants a ready means of switching it off for a switch next to the light switch or at socket level adjacent to the door. Fitting them at high level just looks ugly and puts them out of reasonable reach for a functional switch.

I can't stand the blindly copying what other people do mentality of some 'electricians' who seem to think that fan isolators must be at high level/above doors just because they've seen other people do it.
I've even had one slagging me off for not fitting a high level isolator for a wall mounted fan which was controlled by its own seperate switch on a 2g plate switch outside the bathroom!

Would you class this as isolating all poles for maintence? And out of interest how do you comply with MI of fusing to 3amp?

 

[davesparks]

[/B]
Would you class this as isolating all poles for maintence? And out of interest how do you comply with MI of fusing to 3amp?

What do you mean by all poles? In a TN installation only the line conductor need be isolated (with the exception of the main switch in an installation not under the control of a skilled person)

As far as I am concerned 3A fusing of fans can be buggered. The circuit ocpd is there to protect the cables, not the appliances, if they require protection it is up to the manufacturer to provide suitable protection in the appliance.
None of the devices we use for protection in installations are suitable for appliance protection, neither MCBs nor 1361 fuses provide suitable protection for appliances, you'd need the little 5x20mm fuses for that.

 

[Midwest]

Just to add to the debate. Click Scholmore offer a grid FCU, where the permanent supply to the fan can be fused. Or you can wire in such a way that the whole supply to the fan is fused. As to the positioning of fan isolator at high level (which I do myself I have to admit), I'm guessing perhaps the reasoning, is doesn't looking pleasing at normal switch height outside bathroom. Putting it at high level adds a small degree of safety from it being inadvertently turned back on during any maintenance, cleaning perhaps by the home owner.

 

[sparksburnout]

I still can't see wha'ts wrong with just putting them on a click connector. When you have unplugged it and are sitting with it on your knee I think all poles would definitely be isolated, not that its needed as has been mentioned. If your overly worried about doing the manufacturers job for them just stick an FCU in the loft and run it off that. I think you will find most householders want a minimum or other crap stuck anywhere including above doors.

 

[Midwest]

As I said, its not just electricians who require isolation for maintenance.

 

[sparksburnout]

As I said, its not just electricians who require isolation for maintenance.

Who the hell cleans them???

 

[Midwest]

Who the hell cleans them???

Bizarrely, some people do.

 

[sparksburnout]

Bizarrely, some people do.

All the ones I ever see are bunged up with enough fluff to fill an elephants belly button

 

[joehat]

Bizarrely, some people do.

Only every been told that they Hoover the fluff from view lol

 

[rich.250]

It's building regs where the requirement for fan isolators came from.
So that lights can be left on to work on the fan.
BS 7671 does not require triple like isolation as said above.
I agree that we shouldn't have to fuse down fans because the manufacturer can't be bothered to make parts to a higher current rating!!
Anyway under amend.3 we only have to take manufacturers instructions into account.... Not follow them like sheep!!

 

[davesparks]

It's building regs where the requirement for fan isolators came from.

Which building reg? Or which approved document should I look in to find it?

 

[joehat]

It's building regs where the requirement for fan isolators came from.
So that lights can be left on to work on the fan.
BS 7671 does not require triple like isolation as said above.
I agree that we shouldn't have to fuse down fans because the manufacturer can't be bothered to make parts to a higher current rating!!
Anyway under amend.3 we only have to take manufacturers instructions into account.... Not follow them like sheep!!

Also at per Reg, if it has a window (for light) is doesn't require an isolator for the fan!!!!

 

[HandySparks]

Also at per Reg, if it has a window (for light) is doesn't require an isolator for the fan!!!!

Echoing davesparks, where can I find this particular requirement stated?