No cpc continuity on ring final

[flukeyspark]

Hi all,

Had a call from a customer saying her oven had broken. When the oven engineer went out he fixed the oven but told her she had "no earth on her kitchen sockets".?!?! He told her the other circuits ie the lounge and cooker, were ok but no earth to the kitchen ring final?! How can this be? Does he mean no continuity? Im confused....If it is continuity, and the earth is broken, and its not at a socket, probably a junction box under the floor, is it safe to lower the breaker from 32a to 20...Or spilt and make 2 20a radials...
Strange.....

 

[nickblake]

there is a possability that the cpc have popped out of the terminals in 2 places the easiest way to find it is to carry out your ring main tests to confirm continuity of the legs if the cuircuit cpc is open circuit carry disconnect the circuit tails from the board join the live and cpc together (lever wagos are great for this0 carry out an r1r2 test at each point using the plug top lead till you find the open circuit at the socket then check the connection of the socket ,dont forget the circuit tails will have to be remove from the board to do this and only link one end of the circuit L and cpc together

 

[Farmelectrics]

No it isn't doesn't matter what size breaker if there's no continuity on CPc you need to split ring and find out we're it's failed

 

[Octopus]

I'd wander round the sockets doing EFLI tests and watch the results, write them down and you should find a good place to start

 

[Edd]

as murdoch says EFLI,, highest readings normally points the way!!!

 

[flukeyspark]

Thanks everyone for your comments but as this is an old property i feel its been chopped and changed over the years, maybe j boxes under floors etc...I fear the customer doesn't want floor boards pulling up..what happens then?

 

[Octopus]

Thanks everyone for your comments but as this is an old property i feel its been chopped and changed over the years, maybe j boxes under floors etc...I fear the customer doesn't want floor boards pulling up..what happens then?

Until you've established what any issues are, you're simply pxxxxxxx in the wind.

 

[telectrix]

well, you start with the accessible places ( socket outlets ) and narrow down the fault, as has been sais earlier. if no luck, then you have to ask client whether or not to proceed pulling up floors. stress the safety issues, but if they say no, just charge for time and walk.but get them to sign to the effect that they don't wish you to continue searching for the fault.

 

[Knobhead]

You won’t thank me for this flukey, but I’ve had a look at your previous posts. Those along with this post really make wonder if your up to the job.

Have you left this person with sockets still live with no CPC?

 

[flukeyspark]

Ive not been to the property.....ive not worked here either..its a phone call from a worried customer....and isnt this what forums are for Tony? Whats your advice?

 

[Knobhead]

Let me get this right, your wanting advise on a fault you haven’t even seen?
View attachment 10675
Sorry but my holistic helmet is still away for repair!

 

[micknew]

The training you received should tell you the way tackle this problem if you are an electrician.
You may find the problem very quickly so don't panic.

 

[flukeyspark]

a customer called me saying a hotpoint engineer had been to fix her oven, he did some tests and in his/her words found "no earth on the kitchen ring final"...That's all I know until l go and look tomorrow.....I was just getting feed back on this...if anyone had found similar problems....

 

[Knobhead]

Hotpoint help line 08000 921 922

 

[Guest111]

I am sure we have all had earth faults before and they can be caused by a number of things could be earths out in db however if there is no earth then the system is unsafe and you could be opening a big can of worms for yourself,if your not confident about it leave well enough alone and pass it to someone with more experience,my old apprentice still rings me if he is ever in doubt.remember pride comes before a fall and a court case usually follows an electrocution.not having a go mate just trying to point out the worst case scenario if it bites you.all the best

 

[Silly Sausage]

Ive not been to the property.....ive not worked here either..its a phone call from a worried customer....and isnt this what forums are for Tony? Whats your advice?

!!!!!! Get yourself round there and diagnose the problem.
Like Tony said, if we could solve problems like yours, none of us ever have to get off us bottoms, and make a fortune sitting at home drinking lashings of beer.

 

[ruston]

You maybe lucky and he may of just used a Martindle socket tester and it might be as simple as nickblakle has said.If there is no earth you will just have to do what you have to do , if the boards have to come up they have to come up. It's not just a case of turning up, if it were that easy everyone would be doing it.

 

[trev]

Flukey there's any amounts of reasons why this could be but the only way to find out is to go there armed to the teeth with shiny calibrated test gear. Only your training and experience will help you diagnose exactly what the problem is as has previously been said. Get more info and maybe we can help.

 

[telectrix]

wonder if it's the same engineer i met that got a efli reading of over 100 ohms on a TT system, then said "there's no earth"

 

[nickblake]

untill you get to site then your limited and there are so many ways of fault finding like this the way i described in my earlier post is the way i do it its simple and quick and narrows down the fault and until youve checked it for your self then you wont 100% know what the fault is like the guys have said you cant just plug in a socket tester and say there is no earth it could be a reversed polarity CPC to N but untill you have inspected it then you wont know , i have recently had an argument with a worcester engineer who said there was no bonding to the gas pipe at the meter ,there was, it was as it entered the building just the other side of the wall , so untill you get to site and check your self then you can investigate

 

[D80]

Cooker engineers testing things other than cookers, what's that all about!

 

[mickys86]

What does EFLI stand for? It's doing my head trying to think what that could be haha! I'm guessing it could be R1+R2 but I've not heard of anything like EFLI before. I'm hoping it's just terminology

 

[D80]

Earth Fault Loop Impedance

 

[Lofty]

Earth Fault Loop Impedance

Cheers,
Lofty

 

[mickys86]

Damn it that was an easy one!!!!! :-( haha definitely time for bed lol

 

[ruston]

Damn it that was an easy one!!!!! :-( haha definitely time for bed lol

As the actress said to the bishop lol.

 

[Joules Burn]

Fluky spark, just go and have a look. I bet it's a piece of cake when you get there. The cooker might be on a radial already and the " kitchen ring socket" may well belong to a cooker point? If this is the case then jobs a good un, probably just a simple disconnect somewhere. As for ripping up the boards; if it has to be done, get permission and go for it. If no permission, then disconnect the offending circuit at the board. Tough luck on the customer, but you will at least know she is safe.