no cpc in lights

[chris m]

Just changed a consumer unit today and discovered no cpc in lighting circuits. i need to certificate this on completion so where do i stand? i know there is guidance on this subject but i cant find it nad elecsa phone not ringing out?? there are a couple of metal fittings, plus mains halogens in the kitchen, which i assume would have to be replaced with class 2 type, or does 17th now state earth must be present. the rcd's will no doubt improve the situation but can they be relied on?

 

[roukel01]

Check the electrical safety council website, there is a specific booklet you can download which covers this topic.

http://www.esc.org.uk/pdfs/business-and-community/electrical-industry/BPG1_08.pdf

 

[chris m]

Cheers, so if i get it right, list it as a non compliance with bs7671, put a label on the consumer unit tio indicate no earth at lighting points and measure insulation between each live point and the casing of any fittings., otherwise sod the job off

 

[cbw]

I have just been under cut on a very similar sounding job, I noticed said problems before quoting.

Result I sugested/quoted for new lighting circuits before i modified added the new lights, repaired the metal fittings.

I also tested the TT system and found it to be non existant with no sup bonding either so quoted for all this before installing the new board.

We cant win can we.....quote for it in the first place and lose the deal, bring it up afterwards and get bad reputation/problems with regs/building control or elecsa!

No win situation.

I would put it right rather than lose my registration

CBW

Agh if there is no earth then there will be no nuisance tripping......Never thought about that!

 

[Spudnik]

You can do the work but, and i quote:

"A disclaimer does not absolve the installer from responsibility."

 

[chris m]

i wish i'd checked beforehand because i wouldn't have done the board change, hindsite however is a wonderful thing and i'm in upto me boots. being a rented property, the landlord will have to have a periodic at some point so i will assume it will get mentioned again then.in the mean time i will tell the landlord in writing that it needs doing and the associated risks of not doing so. i wil also fitt the warning label to the board and take a pic with my van cam. then certify as normal.

 

[cbw]

It does also say in that document not to do the work under the circumstances you mention.

I would agree with you about putting class 2 fittings and switches in, can get good downlighters etc these days as class 2, if he wont pay I would find the dosh yourself.

Then put your sticker on and issue certificate.

 

[sparky paul]

If no cpc at lights and class 2 fittings where allready in place then noting it as non compliance and fixing yor sticker would cover you

But in your case the Class 1 fittings are allready there so i would say putting your sticker on saying this circuit blah blah blah is leaving you on very dodgy ground if something happened,.

If i came across no cpc on a circuit with class 1 fittings the only piece of paper with nic on he would get from me would be a danger notification,risk of electric shock

Might concentrate his mind a bit with regard to having the circuit earthed.

 

[ian3012]

i reckon you could get out of this by swapping all his class1 fittings for class2's ( and getting the cheapest screw in bulbs you can find!) but you must make sure of supplementary bonding in the kitchen and bathroom in 4mm.... then put the sticker on... it'll cost you £ 20 and about 4 hrs...if the landlord complains you've binned his fittings, tell him you've done him a favour cos by law you should've left the circuits disconnected... anyone disagree with that?

 

[flukey]

i reckon you could get out of this by swapping all his class1 fittings for class2's ( and getting the cheapest screw in bulbs you can find!) but you must make sure of supplementary bonding in the kitchen and bathroom in 4mm.... then put the sticker on... it'll cost you £ 20 and about 4 hrs...if the landlord complains you've binned his fittings, tell him you've done him a favour cos by law you should've left the circuits disconnected... anyone disagree with that?

only the supp bonding as he has already changed the board

 

[chris m]

reading back through the documents though it states if a class 1 fitting is present in a normal area, in this case the front room and hall and cannot be accessed at the same time as earthed pipeworketc then providing the insulation resistance is in excess of 1 meg then a sticker and non compliance notice in writing will suffice, below 1 meg an rcd has to be installed which i have done anyway. The dodgyu ground in my mind would be the mains halogen downlights in the kitchen, which i would assume have to be earthed or then swapped for class 2. the c/u change was done due to overloading damage to a fuse carrier.