No Earth Lighting options?

[Just]

Hi all, What options do I have with no earth in the house for lighting? All the lighting is done in single red and black switch wire and the worst thing is there are solid oak floors down on both levels. I can get into the loft for the top floor and probably pull in new T&E to the switches but the problem comes with two way and intermediates and the ground floor lighting. It's not practical to pull down ceiling boards. Has anyone come across this before? Am I right in saying that the house could still pass a periodic but with an advisory? At the moment all the fittings are plastic but the customer would like some metal. Is he restricted to 12v or plastic fittings?

 

[eskimo39]

If he is desperate for metal fixings could you not stitch an earth wire around the lighting circuit? You would obviously still have to chase to the switches and also fill the small holes in the ceiling but it is far less destructive than taking boards down.

Unfortunatly it was common not to put earths in lighting circuits a while ago.

 

[gaulty]

Is the lighting circuit done in steel conduit? If so I take it they've used the conduit as an earth? some old installation where done like that.

If it is in conduit have you tried using a snake? might work if you dont hit a conduit box or use one of the old wires as pull wire and just re wire the lot?

Eskimo's right though would be far easier to run an earth round and fill in small holes

 

[old dog]

if it is conduit then i go along with gaulty. a pull through in conduit should be fairly easy.
the conduit can be used as a cpc. for the sake of a few hours work i would rewire

 

[Just]

Thanks for the replies,The house was built in '66 and I guess just after steel conduit installations as all the singles are in the old metal strap type clips and protected by flat metal sheath in the walls. I thought I was totally scuppered, but you suggest stitching which is something I haven't done before can you advise the best way to do this and if you suggest a cable installation tool or other method? Do you use a really long drill close to each joist to keep the hole as straight as possible any tips greatly appreciated. As I can't get to the top of the channelling for the switch, I don't think I will be able to pull an earth in so I guess I will have to chase out all the switch wires put the earth in and re-plaster? If I only need metal light fittings, can I just run an earth for those and leave plastic swithches with no earth..... or is that unacceptable for certification.


Many thanks.

 

[bramboy]

hi
mk make wireless switches, could be quite expensive but saves a chase,1966 house cables are quite old so bit of a waste of time running adjacent earth in.

class 2 plastic fittings and switches could be used and no need for extra earth, but warning notice on circuits without earth would be fitted at db and noed on cert.

 

[trebor]

Hi all, What options do I have with no earth in the house for lighting? All the lighting is done in single red and black switch wire and the worst thing is there are solid oak floors down on both levels. I can get into the loft for the top floor and probably pull in new T&E to the switches but the problem comes with two way and intermediates and the ground floor lighting. It's not practical to pull down ceiling boards. Has anyone come across this before? Am I right in saying that the house could still pass a periodic but with an advisory? At the moment all the fittings are plastic but the customer would like some metal. Is he restricted to 12v or plastic fittings?

Have a look at the link below, it gives a good deal of advice on exactly this subject

Best Practice Guides | Electrical Safety Council

 

[Just]

Yes I've heard about these switches, never used them but it must be great to just plant them on the wall anywhere, I think they are about £80, even for future jobs, surely this is cheaper than chasing out re-plastering painting/papering?! Do you know if there are any issues or concerns at the light fitting such as size of receiver, distance from switch? Thanks for the tip, are they fully compliant with the regs do you know?

 

[bramboy]

hi
look on the mk website at the eco range for spec on these,looks impresive.

Another way of saving the lives of the genral public without the use of an rcd!
(all electrical safety now is just but it on a rcd, that wont every be faulty...)

 

[Just]

Thanks Trebor, a great help.

Hi Bramboy, I know what you mean, Trebor just sent me ESC guide and it says persuade client to add cpc's for compliance with 7671 but if you can't persuade him, rcd, metal fittings and a note on the Installation cert.
hmmm. Just don't use the Chinese RCD's off Ebay with a switch inside...