Notification of Works/Electrical Supervisor

[AndyTheSpark]

Hello All,

I have been working for a housing association for nearly three years now, I joined the internal maintenance team when it was created, all electrical work prior to that was subbed out. The idea was that the team would grow, an electrical supervisor/QS would be installed and we would become NIC registered. It took just over 2.5 years to get the supervisor in place and the NIC inspection set up, which we promptly failed. The reason given was that the supervisor had to admit with all the non-electrical management work he was doing he didn't have time to go out and inspect the work being done. He was then used as a scape-goat for the failure and sacked. Back to Square One.

My query is this; is it legal to operate this way? Most but not all of the installation work is tested, I know that nothing I have done has been checked by anyone in the three years I have been here. The voids are tested and certified between tenancies but without being registered to an NIC etc can the work done and certs written be processed in the right way? Is it acceptable to do the testing and keep the certs inhouse on file - bearing in mind most will have had the C/U upgraded.

Finally, at what point do I become personally liable? If I carry out the work, test and certify it (assuming all results are good) and pass the certs on to a trade supervisor, does this cover me? Also, if I am asked to do work that requires certs and notification and I carry out the work but am not given time test it myself, if I inform my supervisor that it still requires testing, certs etc.. does that alleviate responsibility from me?

I hope someone can clarrify this for me as I am growing increasingly concerned about the way things are run in my region.

Thanks,

Andy.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Hello All,

I have been working for a housing association for nearly three years now, I joined the internal maintenance team when it was created, all electrical work prior to that was subbed out. The idea was that the team would grow, an electrical supervisor/QS would be installed and we would become NIC registered. It took just over 2.5 years to get the supervisor in place and the NIC inspection set up, which we promptly failed. The reason given was that the supervisor had to admit with all the non-electrical management work he was doing he didn't have time to go out and inspect the work being done. He was then used as a scape-goat for the failure and sacked. Back to Square One.

My query is this; is it legal to operate this way? Most but not all of the installation work is tested, I know that nothing I have done has been checked by anyone in the three years I have been here. The voids are tested and certified between tenancies but without being registered to an NIC etc can the work done and certs written be processed in the right way? Is it acceptable to do the testing and keep the certs inhouse on file - bearing in mind most will have had the C/U upgraded.

Finally, at what point do I become personally liable? If I carry out the work, test and certify it (assuming all results are good) and pass the certs on to a trade supervisor, does this cover me? Also, if I am asked to do work that requires certs and notification and I carry out the work but am not given time test it myself, if I inform my supervisor that it still requires testing, certs etc.. does that alleviate responsibility from me?

I hope someone can clarrify this for me as I am growing increasingly concerned about the way things are run in my region.

Thanks,

Andy.

well this dont sound right for a start....certainly not on an INITIAL VERIFICATION anyway
god help us...lol...

 

[markythesparky]

Andy,

Im surprised that NICEIC refused enrolement. they usually let any tom dick or harry on board nowadays. Its all about revenue.

All jobs replacing C/U's are notifiable by law (Part P).

Whos counter signing the completion certs if no work is being checked?

You are always personally liable if you are the last competant person to carry out the work. You carried out the work, not your supervisor. You should have 2391 or equivalent if you are tesing it. If he is testing it then he should be checking your work at certain stages. He wont be afraid to drop you in a large pile of steaming poo if someone gets hurt through an installation that you worked on. His first reaction will be 'i didnt do the work it was........'

The way around this is not to cut corners and make sure you do your work properly. There will be no come back then.

 

[Guest55]

the QS always carries the can for everyones f*** ups lol.

 

[trev]

Andy, if you're familiar with the regs you'll know there's a whole section in there on inspection and testing. One of the regs in there says that an installation will be subjected to this before being energised. Not should/might/can be, WILL.
Now OK I accept that not everyone does this but the rights and wrongs of it are for a different thread, the point I'm trying to make is if you have carried out a job then it's your responsibility to make sure it's safe to bring into service so if something goes wrong on a job you've done it's your butt in the sling because your gaffer will throw his hands up in horror if the powers that be tell him you haven't tested it. Regardless of whether he knows he hasn't given you the time to do that bit of the job, he will feign shock to cover his own ---.
Moral of the story....keep yours covered at all times mate

 

[AndyTheSpark]

I have 2392 and I only work on domestic properties, I'm competent to test so I know all the work I do is to the required standard but I have no idea who, or if anyone countersigns the test results. This is why I posted the thread, this is the only organisation of its type I have worked for and I want to be certain I don't end up in a large pile of steaming poo!!!

To that end, if the certs are just sat in a cupboard gathering dust, without having been counter-signed or sent away, does that still leave me sat under the poo chute?

 

[trev]

Keep copies, one company I worked for years ago told me that they were havig my work certed by an independent 3rd party so I didn't have to test anything at all. So I said nowt to anyone but tested the living daylights out of everything I did. Like I said mate, keep your --- covered,if you've done your bit then it's your employer that's committing the offence by not notifying. Not that anyone really gives a damn but they should.

 

[brucelee]

If the certs are countersigned by someone else other than yourself then its whoever is the Qs takes responsibility

But as for not notifying work for domestic then it is Illegal if its a new circuit or CCU change special loaction work depending on what not to notify either via LABC or Via a scheme such as NICs or elecsa
basically a lot of larger firms do this and as from april will be able to sing of 3rd party work as its all changing so then you can but really still should be supervised throughout the first second and I&T etc

How did they know he hadnt been supervising the works which he should have been by the way

 

[AndyTheSpark]

Thanks trev,

If I do the work, test and certify and supply the completed certs to my supervisor who then does nothing with them what could the outcome be in terms of liability and responsibility?

I understand how things should work, but not having a QS or NICEIC registration has left me uncertain of my position.

Thanks,

Andy

 

[AndyTheSpark]

Thanks.

He told them, I think he was so p1ssed off about being mis-sold the job and getting lumbered with other trades and having a god-awful boss that it was his way of flagging it with senior management - not sure he thought it would cost him job tho!!

 

[R G]

Quite simply you are responsible for testing your work ,regardless of what happens within your company , as you are putting your work into service , cover your rear and record all testing , no matter what your company does with the results , and keep a record for yourself......

 

[trev]

Andy, as long as you can prove that you have done what is required of you and that everything is as it should be with the instal then it's someone else's problem that they're getting asked searching questions by blokes in wigs and funny dress type things standing in oak panelled rooms.
The only way you can prove that you've tested and it was safe when you left it is to keep copies of the certs that you complete.

 

[TaffyDuck]

In line with ANY document, the signatory is liable. If there is no QS in place to countersign then its your head on the block. Don`t be under the illusion that they wont sell you down the river if something goes wrong because they will, and you know it. Time for a retrospective pay rise perhaps?

 

[Engineer54]

Housing Associations and the like are well known to be totally inept at just about everything they try and do, because they don't want to spend the money on the work and/or the management to do things correctly!!

As for the supervisor that was sacked, he was probably inundated with meaningless paperwork, that was unloaded on him by his lazy boss. A works supervisor /QS is a field orientated position, not a desk job.

 

[Rampantchilli]

A QS signature on your cert is only a signature that the details on your cert make sense and comply, not that you work has been assessed.
My employer is a HA and we are niceic reg, we have 1 active QS, me and 4 other accredited for the role but carrying out other duties. We do spot checks on site.
if you are carrying out the correct certs then the other responsibility lies with you employer, including doing part p.
it may be worth getting in writing your companies policy and procedure with regards to your work, that will cover your back, or even approach your bosses and suggest you be put forward for the compliance position, stating the laws you are currently breaking as a company