nvq

[shagg]

As anyone out their done the C&G 2330 and gone on to do the NVQ, if so
how did you manage to do so?​

 

[danzor]

Just about to finish my 2330, thinking of doing the NVQ but on the other hand I dont really want to be working for any JIB firms. Then again its always something to fall back on

 

[Cirrus]

I finish my 2330 next week but won't bother with NVQ3. I think the JIB is a waste of time so don't work for companies who call themselves 'JIB' companies. Basically it is an excuse to pay you JIB rates which are so low.

 

[Rob]

Whats a JIB firm? Ive heard of sites, usually major contractor group and large new build housing developers etc who request jib cards.

Firms take on electricians, if thats what they want. And the recognised status for an electrician is qualfication to level 3 in both the C&G and the NVQ. The technical and the practical.

I dont think its a case of deciding not to do it if becoming an electrician is your goal. Its a requirement to become a "competent person". Ive seen people do the C&G course whilst holding down jobs in offices behind desks or other trades. Without the NVQ how can these people pass as an electrician. They could pass 3 years C&G with distinctions all the way and be experts on inductive reactance and three phase motor theory but have never so much as lifted a screwdriver in their life apart from the minimal practical experience you get during the C&G course.

I admit the NVQ is a pain. Alot of paper work and time consuming site visits and portfolio building. Its not even something that anyone can fail. It just takes as long as it takes. ?However its needed to establish whether someone is hands on competent as well as knowledge based.​

 

[Shakey]

Whats a JIB firm? Ive heard of sites, usually major contractor group and large new build housing developers etc who request jib cards.​

Firms take on electricians, if thats what they want. And the recognised status for an electrician is qualfication to level 3 in both the C&G and the NVQ. The technical and the practical.​

I dont think its a case of deciding not to do it if becoming an electrician is your goal. Its a requirement to become a "competent person". Ive seen people do the C&G course whilst holding down jobs in offices behind desks or other trades. Without the NVQ how can these people pass as an electrician. They could pass 3 years C&G with distinctions all the way and be experts on inductive reactance and three phase motor theory but have never so much as lifted a screwdriver in their life apart from the minimal practical experience you get during the C&G course.​

I admit the NVQ is a pain. Alot of paper work and time consuming site visits and portfolio building. Its not even something that anyone can fail. It just takes as long as it takes. ?However its needed to establish whether someone is hands on competent as well as knowledge based.​

Sorry Rob, but since when have you needed the C&G (preume you mean the 2330) and the NVQ to be a Competent Person? Who has decided that

By the way, by your defintion I am not an 'Electrician'

thats my my 25 years expeirence up for nowt then

I am teaching 17th edition tommorrow, 2392 next week and the 2391 the week later

However will I muddle through

 

[ian.settle1]

As I served my time many years ago and have not gone down this route of NVQ's etc, the reason I have been told for the NVQ's is that you can have passed all the certificates and have the theoretical knowledge but may not have any practical experience.

This is what the NVQ's are for, to show your practical knowledge (I am to understand) when having the on-site assessments with the log book you have to fill in.

I may be wrong but this is what I have been told, so don't go jumping down my throat saying I am talking through my ---- passageway if I am wrong.

 

[Shakey]

You are right Ian, absolutely right

the NVQ proves practical competence to compliment academic achievemient

and it meant that when i did my NVQ 3 in electrical maintenance engineering back in the mid nineties

what i object to is the inference (not from you Ian!) that without an NVQ 3 in installations, than you cant be an 'electrician' (and I know this has been discussed before, extensively)

of course the NVQ has its place, but i was doing entire three and single phase industrial installations (inlcuding generators etc, and testing and inspecting) for quite a few years before NVQ's were dreamed up by thatcher's crowd

maybe i should go back to college and learn to be a 'proper' electrician

 

[Cirrus]

This is a subject that annoys me too. I have worked as a spark for years and hold down 2330 L2 & L3. I am doing my 2391 and 17th and I am classed as a 'competent' electrician. I do not need NVQ3 to prove it and the only people that recognise NVQ3 are the JIB (Joint Industry Board). Without the NVQ3 THEY - get that, THEY decide in their organisation you can only be classed as an electrical improver and not an electrician. So what? Many employers don't follow JIB pay scales or guidelines anyway so what does it matter? From what I see, the only people doing NVQ3 are the apprentices going through the JTL route and why? Because it can be done during the 2330 course. It (at present in most colleges) cannot be taken in conjunction with the 2330 evening courses although thius is set to change.

I challenge anyone (like Shakey) to tell me that I am not an electrician!

 

[Shakey]

well said Cirrus

and as you know, I have challenged a few on here (especially the 'proper sparks' brigade) to define what exactly what specific quals are needed before one can be 'labelled' as an 'Electrician'

i also offer the same 'proper sparks' to go toe-to-toe with this 'non sparks' on any electrical matters - no takers on either counts

 

[Rob]

Sorry Rob, but since when have you needed the C&G (preume you mean the 2330) and the NVQ to be a Competent Person? Who has decided that

Isnt that the industry recognised standard?

By the way, by your defintion I am not an 'Electrician'

thats my my 25 years expeirence up for nowt then

Thats not really my definition is it? I have a family member who has been in the trade 36 years.

Of course he did an apprentiship many moons ago before the days of NVQ. It would be ridiculous to assume people like him and yourself would then have to return to school to become electricians.

I was aiming my post as the folk who have been posting here of late regarding their 2330 exams/past papers etc. I am assuming they are relatively new to the trade.

I am teaching 17th edition tommorrow, 2392 next week and the 2391 the week later

Errr good for you

 

[Shakey]

Sorry Rob, but since when have you needed the C&G (preume you mean the 2330) and the NVQ to be a Competent Person? Who has decided that

Isnt that the industry recognised standard?

By the way, by your defintion I am not an 'Electrician'

thats my my 25 years expeirence up for nowt then

Thats not really my definition is it? I have a family member who has been in the trade 36 years.

Of course he did an apprentiship many moons ago before the days of NVQ. It would be ridiculous to assume people like him and yourself would then have to return to school to become electricians.

I was aiming my post as the folk who have been posting here of late regarding their 2330 exams/past papers etc. I am assuming they are relatively new to the trade.

I am teaching 17th edition tommorrow, 2392 next week and the 2391 the week later

Errr good for you

No Rob, it is not the 'industry recognised standard'

Not your definition?

Apart from your quote " And the recognised status for an electrician is qualfication to level 3 in both the C&G and the NVQ. The technical and the practical"

And like i said that means I am not an electrician

Oh, and i am still doing the teaches

 

[Rob]

No Rob, it is not the 'industry recognised standard'

So what is the recognised standard then?

Not your definition?

Apart from your quote " And the recognised status for an electrician is qualfication to level 3 in both the C&G and the NVQ. The technical and the practical"

And like i said that means I am not an electrician

Like I said I was referring to people doing their training now. Not 25 years ago when NVQs werent in exsistence.

This is only my opinion based on what local authorities, major contractor groups, further education colleges deem as "qualified" when you ask them.

Are they all wrong?

Oh, and i am still doing the teaches

If you are a teacher then it might be worth learning how to write a sentence properly.

 

[bobajob]

Just wanted to put in my two penneth worth.

If a person can pass the relevent exams and then get registered on a competent persons scheme, then he can carry out electrical work, and certify his own work. Isn't that right?

So really it dosn't matter if a person is "qualified" or not. If he has the correct certificates, can work safely and can get a well paid job working with electricity, then isn't that the final goal? Surely the NVQ is just another string to help in getting work, useful but not essential. When he has worked long enough to gain experience then he can work for himself if he wants to.

Too many people seem to want to complicate the whole process.

 

[Shakey]

Just wanted to put in my two penneth worth.

If a person can pass the relevent exams and then get registered on a competent persons scheme, then he can carry out electrical work, and certify his own work. Isn't that right?

So really it dosn't matter if a person is "qualified" or not. If he has the correct certificates, can work safely and can get a well paid job working with electricity, then isn't that the final goal? Surely the NVQ is just another string to help in getting work, useful but not essential. When he has worked long enough to gain experience then he can work for himself if he wants to.

Too many people seem to want to complicate the whole process.

and use the term 'Electrician' purely to define people who carry out electrical installations on commerical domestic or industrial infrastructure

there are some 43 categories of trades/tradesman out there who can call themselves 'electricians', and the majority of them do not install fixed wiring

the term 'electrician' is not a 'protected' term like 'Doctor', where you have to achieve a prescribed set of academic criteria

And just because people like the JIB proclaim that you are not an 'electrician' until you achieve X,Y and Z does not make it so, it just means that you cannot be a JIB Electrican until you achieve X,Y and Z

 

[Rob]

So in your experience of teaching Shakey. What route would you recommend someone with no or little experience takes if his goal is to become a competent electrician?