Outdoor SWA Distribution Circuit; Can it be clipped to a FENCE?

[KEVINDOE]

I have clipped direct to a "secure" fence many times, including niceic assesment jobs, i always use s.w.a, and i also try to keep it as low down as poss.

 

[malcolmsanford]

It is entirely down the the designer/installer and that much abused method of 'risk assment". If the designer believes that the fence is of a construction to securely fix the SWA to, and is in a good condition then there is nothing to stop you clipping to a fence.

 

[andyb]

If a Farm Animal or a pet dog gets killed chewing/scratching itself on a cable on a fence, you will get the blame and sued for hundreds of thousands of pounds, if an Adult gets hurt, you will get sued for hundreds of thousands of pounds, if an adult gets killed you will get sued for millions and banned from working in a trade, and maybe a year in Jail....If a child gets hurt, you will go to Jail for probably 3 or 4 years and get sued for millions, if a kid was to get a shock and die, they would put you away for maybe 15 years, sue you for/fine you millions of pounds and go after all your immediate familys assets and property as well, and your whole life would be ruined and basically over.....then in jail they would probably end up doing you in.


heres a silly example......*Customer*"I want you to put a supply to my caravan from that shed.......I want it in this stuff....(shows a reel of speaker wire)....heres the stuff"........which we would say "No thats dangerous it should be done with this and that".......(customer thinks- thats too expensive).....asks a cowboy.......cowboy says "twenny quid"....and the dodgy work gets done.......

What would a farm animal be doing in someones back garden?
If you are worried about a pet dog chewing through armoured cable then you must be having some sleepless nights worrying about all the flex to appliances in the houses you have wired that have dogs. The same applies to adults & children being hurt.

I think you look at each installation separately, there are some rickety old fences you wouldn't touch, but a well built fence with the cable properly installed & protected should be ok.

As for the speaker cable, I would of thought that 79 strand would be ok.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I would have thought there would be a few comments from Health and safety people if they seen a mains cable clipped along a fence, something along the lines of Electric Fence.....what happens if a cow/sheep or even a dog chews through it....or a kid or adult climbs over the fence and splits it, I personally wouldnt put any electricity cables insulated or otherwise anywhere near the easy reach of anybody...

If a Farm Animal or a pet dog gets killed chewing/scratching itself on a cable on a fence, you will get the blame and sued for hundreds of thousands of pounds, if an Adult gets hurt, you will get sued for hundreds of thousands of pounds, if an adult gets killed you will get sued for millions and banned from working in a trade, and maybe a year in Jail....If a child gets hurt, you will go to Jail for probably 3 or 4 years and get sued for millions, if a kid was to get a shock and die, they would put you away for maybe 15 years, sue you for/fine you millions of pounds and go after all your immediate familys assets and property as well, and your whole life would be ruined and basically over.....then in jail they would probably end up doing you in.


leave them to it, to put a cable along a fence(made from metal wire/mesh) at waist height, they just want to take any work that others are not keen on doing, even if it is blatantly dangerous and/or illegal....right where people (particularly kids) can climb on it, it can be subject to chewing by animals and movement/damage from other causes...and may end up exposing live conductors and also making a length of the fence live...

You were right to refuse to do it, I would also have chosen to bury the cable, the problem is that a lot of customers go round different tradesmen until they hear what they want to hear(which is that it will be done dirt cheap) its a case of "well I think that it can be done this way and I say so" to which the reply is either "thats dangerous-count me out" or "certainly, definately".....they go with the second response, then they ask for a discount for cash....and blame the sparky if anything goes wrong...


heres a silly example......*Customer*"I want you to put a supply to my caravan from that shed.......I want it in this stuff....(shows a reel of speaker wire)....heres the stuff"........which we would say "No thats dangerous it should be done with this and that".......(customer thinks- thats too expensive).....asks a cowboy.......cowboy says "twenny quid"....and the dodgy work gets done.......

Quite frankly this it complete testicles...probably one of the least helpful posts I've seen on this forum...you would never expose an electric cable to people??....well then half the flaming country is highly dangerous......and what if you bury the cable and someone digs it up?....minimum life sentence by your scale of punishments.
An SWA clipped along a fence WITH CONSIDERATION OF EXTERNAL INFUENCES is no more hazardous than an SWA installed any other way....of course anyone with half a brain cell would not install a cable where it would be liable to interference from livestock...BUT,that does not mean that ALL SWA's clipped direct to a fence are dangerous....

 

[domestic spark]

Yes what a stupid post! I would without a doubt cleat armoured to a fence that was I'n GOOD condition! Very over the top post I think, not needed as an input, that's all I have to say on this post! Hope this clears things up mate!

 

[pushrod]

I took it as a spoof

 

[PC Electrics]

There is a simple rule with regulations:
unless the regulation specifically disallows something, then it is allowed.

Neither is it a requirement that the swa must be buried if it isn't fixed to a wall. You could, if you deem fit, simply lay the swa along the ground at the base of the fence. This addresses the issue of the fence blowing away and taking the cable with it, without the expense of burial. It does of course, bring it's own issues. It is however an option open to you if you think the conditions are right.

To dismiss fixing swa to any fence under all conditions would be wrong. So would fixing it to any old scanky bit of woodwork. Only you can see the conditions at the installation and you must judge what is right for those conditions.

As for Grants post - blatent scaremongering of the worst kind.

 

[Colonel Hathi]

This is getting a little heated isn't it
The overall position seems to be that BS7671 does not state that wiring must be attached to a permanent structure (?)
The NICEIC guidance is clearly that it should be attached to a permanent structure - and that a timber fence isn't a permanent structure (?)
The general view that people have expressed here is that one needs to take a decision individually based on "external influences" and the condition and ownership of whatever you are thinking of attaching to (?)

I do not have the years of experience that I am sure many of you guys do - so I tend to err always on the side of following the NICEIC - or the safest option. Sometimes that may be a bit "over the top" - so I ask you chaps!

Seriously, thanks for all the responses.
Based on what you chaps have advised, I think I will always advise that the trench or wall are the best options and fully compliant with NICEIC advice - but that based on a site survey and risk assessment it may be possible to attach to solid fencing.

I am just worried that sometimes people do seem to just want to hear the cheapest option - leaving me at risk if things then go wrong later.

I am sure the cleint isn't going to stand up in Cort and say "Yes your Honour he burned down my house and electrocuted my cat - but its ok because he saved me 50 quid"

I think I may actually let this particualr job go anyway. The chap received honest advice from me in the first place, then went off and spoke to another electrician - but didn't have the decency to come back to me with the query (I heard it from a third party)

Thanks again

CH

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I took it as a spoof

I didnt...(and still dont)..but if it was I apologise for my reply.

 

[High Tower]

The NICEIC do this a lot, and although they like to think they do, theNICEIC do not write the regs, it's not the first time that the BRB and their guides have differed

 

[jeremy]

Does anyone know of a good barrister? I've laid SWA on the ground before and now fear I may be sued by the Association for Rescuing Squirrels Entirely. I don't have hundreds of thousands of pounds. What should I do?

 

[sparks1234]

Well I think Grant got just what he wanted, to stir it up and wind people up by talking a load of cobblers.

 

[pushrod]

Does anyone know of a good barrister? I've laid SWA on the ground before and now fear I may be sued by the Association for Rescuing Squirrels Entirely. I don't have hundreds of thousands of pounds. What should I do?

LOL mmm nasty - being had by the ARSE

 

[Deleted member 9648]

It's not A.R.S.E you need to worry about...it's the Forthright Union of Cable Operatives Fixing to Fences you want to avoid upsetting.

 

[SMB]

Good god.

I thought we were spose to be on eachothers side.

Grant, your post was scare-mongering. Really ridiculous. Awful.

Attaching an swa to a secure fence is not a problem in my book.