Over load contactor its been awhile

[monkee]

can some please guide me i have little problem the contactor stays on if push it in then fan runs but if i push the start button nothing happens

it has been sitting in the garage for a year I have now installed but i may have a wire in the wrong place any tips would be very gratefull thank you for reading this

 

[44ALLAN]

Helps with a start button mate
What's the blue wire for !!!!

Just noticed it on the photo
oops

 

[44ALLAN]

Monkee,

I'm assuming the start button is under the black 'shadowy' bit on the right?
If so it should be wired in parallel with aux contact 13 and 14.
Your coil/control cct is wired 440v............L1-A1 and then L3 through O/L start/stop and aux to A2 of coil.

 

[Knobhead]

 

[wade88]

Phenomenal Tony. That's taking advice to another level.

 

[Knobhead]

I'm slowly going through all my drawings and animating them.

 

[Sintra]

Another gem Tony absolutely brilliant.

 

[44ALLAN]

Now if the sparks I served my apprenticeship under had animations like that it would have saved me a few sleepless nights trying to understand control circuits !

All they had was some tattered and torn ( covered in coal dust and oil) wiring diagrams that they produced from their inside pocket now and again ffs lol.

I'll take the 1st stab at fault finding and put my head on the block.

From the OP it sounds like your closing the contactor manually with a screwdriver.
This will indeed power the fan up and the coil will hold in due to the N/O auxilliary contact between 13 and 14.
Now if ,as you say, nothing happens when you push the start button then it would appear you haven't wired it correctly across 13 and 14 ( in parallel with aux contact).

 

[Silly Sausage]

I'm slowly going through all my drawings and animating them.

The number of drawings I think you've got, that's you busy for the next 10 years!

 

[monkee]

hi bud the blue is emmitted to the fan not required the start button is o n the right remember the cover is taken off

 

[monkee]

hi guys thanks for the amazing response the switch part is not clear but it is wired in just hard to seee in the picture it is the small black bit on the right

it was given to me in this state along with the fan i just had to add the power but i did remeber that the coil needed a netrual so i removed the over load and connected in i have not touched any wires around the unit

i should just check that the switch is making or should renew it all is this an old unit thanks again guys lost of cars to spray ha ha

 

[44ALLAN]

hi guys thanks for the amazing response the switch part is not clear but it is wired in just hard to seee in the picture it is the small black bit on the right

it was given to me in this state along with the fan i just had to add the power but i did remeber that the coil needed a netrual so i removed the over load and connected in i have not touched any wires around the unit

i should just check that the switch is making or should renew it all is this an old unit thanks again guys lost of cars to spray ha ha

Listen mate.........your messing on with something lethal and telling me the coil needed a Neutral does not tally up with the photo you posted.
If the coil is 230v then fine you need a neutral.
Your photo show the coil/control circuit is wired to 430/440 volt across L1 and L3 !
Did you know that or are you just guessing at all this?

Get a spark in before you blow that coil up or the sad mechanic who turns it on

- - - Updated - - -

hi bud the blue is emmitted to the fan not required the start button is o n the right remember the cover is taken off

The cover is off !!

Neva noticed

 

[Knobhead]

hi guys thanks for the amazing response the switch part is not clear but it is wired in just hard to seee in the picture it is the small black bit on the right

it was given to me in this state along with the fan i just had to add the power but i did remeber that the coil needed a netrual so i removed the over load and connected in i have not touched any wires around the unit

i should just check that the switch is making or should renew it all is this an old unit thanks again guys lost of cars to spray ha ha

You've removed the overload? Why?
Put it back!

The unit will be wired as shown in the animation. As Allan said it doesn't require a neutral.

Allan that was OTT even by my grumpy standards.

 

[Elmer BeFuddled]

Excellent work with the animation Tony. If one critique (ducks!!): The third image changes back to the first image before I can read all of the text on the left in one go. But I am a slow reader!

 

[Knobhead]

It's also done to the American standard which is OK for 400V control but wrong for UK grounded control.

Have sent you a PM.

 

[44ALLAN]

You've removed the overload? Why?
Put it back!

The unit will be wired as shown in the animation. As Allan said it doesn't require a neutral.

Allan that was OTT even by my grumpy standards.

oops sorry about that.
Wasn't meant to be that's why I put the smiley faces on.
Just trying to make the guy realise what he's messing on with !!

Removed the overload..........eh what's that all about it's still in the photo wired up fgs !!!!

 

[Darkwood]

Do what my old boss taught me .... if you dont understand it physically push in the contactor to see what happens.....!!!:nonod:
I asked wouldn't that over-ride any control and more so safety systems...which he said 'we are just proving that the contactor is letting power through and you also can find out what it does as well if there are lots of them' ...


I shook my head in disbelieve and never took his advice again.

The poorest advice i ever received hence i dont work for him now as i rose past his intellectual level nearly 25yrs ago in my apprenticeship.

 

[44ALLAN]

Do what my old boss taught me .... if you dont understand it physically push in the contactor to see what happens.....!!!:nonod:
I asked wouldn't that over-ride any control and more so safety systems...which he said 'we are just proving that the contactor is letting power through and you also can find out what it does as well if there are lots of them' ...

Even at my age I still to this day enjoy the challenge of finding a fault
The start/stop button in the OP is basic stuff and any fault should be easily traced with a couple of 'dead tests' on the control circuit.
No need whatsoever to close the contactor manually onto a possible seized motor..............dirty pants time if you do lol

 

[Darkwood]

I do admit i do it in certain circumstances on systems i know and where even if motor seized the couple of seconds test wouldn't really be of concern... like say a pump etc it can save alot of time in some circumstances and instant diagnosis but yes agree that its not for routine fault finding methods especially on machines your unfamiliar with.... or the consequences could be dire!!!!

 

[Knobhead]

Do what my old boss taught me .... if you dont understand it physically push in the contactor to see what happens.....!!!:nonod:
I asked wouldn't that over-ride any control and more so safety systems...which he said 'we are just proving that the contactor is letting power through and you also can find out what it does as well if there are lots of them' ...


I shook my head in disbelieve and never took his advice again.

The poorest advice i ever received hence i dont work for him now as i rose past his intellectual level nearly 25yrs ago in my apprenticeship.

I must have pushed contactors in 1000’s of times. But I didn’t fall in to that category.

 

[Darkwood]

I must have pushed contactors in 1000’s of times. But I didn’t fall in to that category.

I learnt not to be an idiot by example not by experience thankfully :iagree:

 

[44ALLAN]

I must have pushed contactors in 1000’s of times. But I didn’t fall in to that category.

Bet you still closed you eyes and turned your head away

 

[Knobhead]

Why? Can't see what's going on then.

Only had it go wrong once with open type contactors on an old lift motor. Pushed the main and down contactors with my hands and the speed contactor with my right foot. I over balanced and fell over.

 

[monkee]

Tony, Allen and others who have seen my post thanks for the replys its good to see all the comments, if can Tony could may i reply later in more depth about the contactor thanks again

 

[monkee]

today new head looking at the pictures i noticed that the load was on the wrong side changed it around bingo works perfect

i was a bellend about the coil but did not know that you can use 415 to pull in the coil as well as 240 going across two phases or going phase to

neutral so thanks guys all the posts they do help even if it gets a bit heated no offence taken at all,

 

[Knobhead]

You’re not the first and you’ll not be the last. Don’t worry about it, you won’t fall for it again.