over running supply

vibetime · Mar 16, 2015

Hi all I'm after some views on a job I'm pricing, pme 3 phase 3x100amp fuse holders supplying a fair size commercial unit, which was split into two units. Small unit is basic lights and sockets with few wall heaters (3 phase d.b)., main unit is a gym in which he is wanting to add two more beauty rooms and two 3 phase sunbeds. Now one is on 20 amp MCB and the other a 32 amp . the gym has four electric showers at 8.5 kW .
The small unit is open daytime only, I've clamped the tails when the small unit is open and with the gym lighting on and a few treadmills I saw 40 amp on one phase 10 on another and 3 on the last, so its not well balanced at all.
With the small unit shut I clamped the tails again with just the gym running and I turned all showers on etc and the external lighting , I saw 50 amps on one phase and 40 each on the other two. My concern is that its warmish at the mo and there's no electric heating in use or any air con so this lot plus the two sunbeds ( no more info at the moment on them except what MCB size) plus hair dryers and other bits is going to be pushing its luck and if its daytime and the small units open thats an issue. I know the sunbeds will have a higher inrush when turned on and then settle down but I still reckon they will pull prob 15 amp per phase for the smaller one and 24 ish for the bigger one and they'll be on n off a lot.
I'm not sure if the supply fuses are actually 100 amps or could be 80 amps. I've thought about losing two of the showers but they get used a lot and this could be a customer issue. I don't see there's that much diversity to play with either as all lights are constantly on etc. Maybe some with the showers but these are steadily used at all times.
Am I been sensible or over cautious ???
Regards
Pete.

davesparks · Mar 16, 2015

Clamping the tails only gives a brief snapshot of the current demand. If you want to know the real demand then carry out a load study.

vibetime · Mar 16, 2015

davesparks said:
Clamping the tails only gives a brief snapshot of the current demand. If you want to know the real demand then carry out a load study.

Thanks for the reply but I don't have the equipment to do that . have you any more views on my issue ? I know a lot of sparks would just wing it but I'm not into that n don't want anyone moaning if it was to blow

davesparks · Mar 16, 2015

Then hire it!

vibetime · Mar 16, 2015

Could do I'll check it out with the wholesalers.

Engineer54 · Mar 17, 2015

vibetime said:
Could do I'll check it out with the wholesalers.

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Knobhead · Mar 18, 2015

vibetime said:
Could do I'll check it out with the wholesalers.

Engineer54 said:
Check out our forum sponsor ''test-meter'' who also hire out test equipment suitable for your needs!!

Hire Power Quality Analysers - UK - Yorkshire - Leeds

Hiring equipment is often the best way. In my 12 years at the foundry, only occasionally I needed to keep track of loading.
The company were willing to buy the analyzer but I argued there were other things that would be of more use. Why pay for something that would sit in a cupboard for months on end.

The stupid thing? I had to fight tooth and nail to get a 5KV Megger we would use at least once a week. I got the Megger, eventually.

Accountants, the bain of British industry!
Sorry I'm in rant mode, accountants have caused me grief throughout my working life.

Engineer54 · Mar 18, 2015

Once a thriving and respected Engineering company hands over the company purse strings to a newly appointed admin section including accountant(s), the company is basically on a nose dive. I've seen this happen far too many times to be a coincidence. There are very few accountants out there that have the first idea of how an engineering company functions, all they see is money. Start P***ing of the clients and the company name and industry reputation disappears and a damn sight quicker than it took to build that reputation...

ruston · Mar 18, 2015

Tony said:
Hiring equipment is often the best way. In my 12 years at the foundry, only occasionally I needed to keep track of loading.
The company were willing to buy the analyzer but I argued there were other things that would be of more use. Why pay for something that would sit in a cupboard for months on end.

The stupid thing? I had to fight tooth and nail to get a 5KV Megger we would use at least once a week. I got the Megger, eventually.

Accountants, the bain of British industry!
Sorry I'm in rant mode, accountants have caused me grief throughout my working life.

And deaths ultimately!

Knobhead · Mar 18, 2015

Engineer54 said:
Once a thriving and respected Engineering company hands over the company purse strings to a newly appointed admin section including accountant(s), the company is basically on a nose dive. I've seen this happen far too many times to be a coincidence. There are very few accountants out there that have the first idea of how an engineering company functions, all they see is money. Start P***ing of the clients and the company name and industry reputation disappears and a damn sight quicker than it took to build that reputation...

The same accountant came up with the money saving idea of reducing the works distribution voltage. He’d read about it somewhere, browbeat our senior engineer in to giving it a try. Senior engineer clears off on holiday leaving me a memo to give it a try.

So one Sunday I had a play, I think the idea was for me to try it on one of the 20MVA transformers, to hell with that! I put all four in to manual voltage control with 1 leader and 3 followers. I’d the fitters stood by voltmeters at various parts of the works reporting back the LV voltage. Normally LV was 433V, it wasn’t to bad at 420V but the fitters reported back the current was rising. Sod it, I took it down to the mythical 400V, it was absolute chaos!

There was an arse kicking party on the Monday, the accountant was guest of honour.

Darkwood · Mar 18, 2015

Engineer54 said:
Once a thriving and respected Engineering company hands over the company purse strings to a newly appointed admin section including accountant(s), the company is basically on a nose dive. I've seen this happen far too many times to be a coincidence. There are very few accountants out there that have the first idea of how an engineering company functions, all they see is money. Start P***ing of the clients and the company name and industry reputation disappears and a damn sight quicker than it took to build that reputation...

Tell me about it .. had a major argument with a customers accountant... he was slating the 4.5k bill for a machine upgrade control I just built but couldn't see the return on the machine no matter how I argued ... went to the MD's for a meeting laid it all out on the table and got paid immediately .. the machine paid for itself within 2months and they are now reaping the extra production rewards..I think the threat of walking and letting them find another Engineer on the doorstep in these time of shortages hit home, I now get alot more respect from him and no questions asked.

PS we nicknamed the accountant the fat controller because he thinks hes the one that makes things run smoothly but in reality its the engineers that do all the work.

Engineer54 · Mar 20, 2015

darkwood said:
Tell me about it .. had a major argument with a customers accountant... he was slating the 4.5k bill for a machine upgrade control I just built but couldn't see the return on the machine no matter how I argued ... went to the MD's for a meeting laid it all out on the table and got paid immediately .. the machine paid for itself within 2months and they are now reaping the extra production rewards..I think the threat of walking and letting them find another Engineer on the doorstep in these time of shortages hit home, I now get alot more respect from him and no questions asked.

PS we nicknamed the accountant the fat controller because he thinks hes the one that makes things run smoothly but in reality its the engineers that do all the work.

I meant to mention above, that i was talking about companies started by and run by Engineers catering for the Engineering industry.

Some of these companies become very successful very quickly and can swamp the Engineers/Directors time that can be better spent on innovating and improving their products/services. The wrong accountant (and/or office staff) brought into such a company can decimate it, trying to save a few Pounds here and there...