Part p schemes

[chrisday3000]

Hello everyone,

Sorry if this has been asked for more but I could not find the answer anywhere.

Basically, I am planning on getting Part P registered and also want to be able to do EICR's.

I have done an advanced apprenticeship however I do not have my 2391, which I read on Elecsa's website this was a requirement.

Do all Part P schemes require this?

Many Thanks, Chris.

 

[telectrix]

could be that elecsa require 2391 if you want to do EICRs under their banner. in fact, you don't even need to be a member to do EICRs, but it helps if something goes wrong. i would speak to elecsa about this.

 

[trev]

No mate check the elecsa site, all the info is on there. It's better to do 2391 or whatever it's going to be called soon but it's not compulsory

 

[chrisday3000]

Section 3 of the online application form mate

 

[chrisday3000]

Or is it not a requirement to have the assessment and you can still do them anyway?

 

[telectrix]

best speak to elecasa. i know severasl members who ain't done 2391.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

You can still do electrical work in peoples homes, pubs and factories and not be a member of a part P scheme, it just becomes a bit more awkward with the notifiable work (only pertinent to residential dwellings, I know) should you happen to do some.

Just food for thought, they are middle men basically that add nothing.

They do not MAKE you competant. They do not MAKE you have a calibrated meter. and they do not make you a good worker,a consciencious tradesperson, or a good business man,

All that comes from you.

What they give you is .... a badge, for £400 a year



Bayonet fixed

edit: they do not make you good at speeling either :goofy:

 

[chrisday3000]

TELECTRIX,

Please can you explain how you do not need to be under a scheme to do EICR's.

I've worked for a firm since day 1 of my apprenticeship so obviously everything used to go through them so I am new to this side of things.

Thanks mate

 

[trev]

There are no restrictions on who can carry out an EICR mate it's an opinion backed upby reference to the regs. If you have PI insurance you're good to go

 

[chrisday3000]

Oh right I get you, so you do not have to go through LABC or anyone to inform them you have done an EICR?

Also, what certificates do you use? i.e where to get them from

 

[trev]

You can use the model forms in 7671. That's what you'll be filling in when you do 2391

 

[trev]

Personallised ones would look more pro though

 

[Tonkatoy27]

I'm ELECSA registered and do not have my 2391. It just means that you can't register EICR's with them and probably don't have their support if something goes wrong. To do EIRC's you do need a very good knowledge of regulations and it helps to have a lot of experience but you do not need your 2391. You do however need calibration certificates for your meters at the annual inspection.
ELECSA have always been very helpful, good feedback from techinical support line on any type of question. I agree part p is flawed but it's the best we've got to weed out the cowboys. At least ELECSA act if notified that an approved sparky is dodgy or a client is specifying NICEIC when they should be saying 'approved'

 

[Tonkatoy27]

I'm ELECSA and do EICR's as often as I win the contract for them. I'm not 2391 qualified. It helps to have a very good knowedge of the regs and alot of experience. Once you are ELECSA registered you can download and print all the forms you need for minor works, installation certs and EICR's. Their tech support is great and I've had no probs apart from late inspections. Part P isn't policed very well but it's the only tool we've got against the cowboy.

 

[chrisday3000]

Cheers lads.

So what I could do is join elecsa as an installer to do installation work and remedial work as such, and do EIC'S through myself.

However, I may have an insurance company lined up who want me to do the EICR'S throughout the country but they may require 'branded' certs?

This would be something I would have to find out from them I guess.

 

[Tonkatoy27]

ELCSA's EICR forms have the ELECSA logo on them. Job done.

 

[chrisday3000]

Yes however you have to pay a lot extra and have another assessment to use their forms.

 

[Tonkatoy27]

Nope, disagree. The extra EICR inspection only allows you to log the tests and have them back you up. (as well as test your supposed supirior knowledg of the regs) I DO NOT pay for the extra EICR assesment and can still use downloaded ELECSA EICR forms.

 

[chrisday3000]

Fair enough, very interesting to know.

 

[chrisday3000]

In what instance would you NEED them to back you up?

 

[DurhamSparky]

my certs have the elecsa logo and my scheme number on them and i don't pay silly money to do PIRs to them....!!

another money making scheme!!

 

[Tonkatoy27]

Pass, Haven't come across that prob yet. they are still happy to discuss the odd 'I dunno whats the best course of action' problem. Presume it's best to be able to say that 'I'm tested by a governing body' if you end up in a court of law if someone get injured by an installation you've tested.

 

[DurhamSparky]

if you end up in court you have your 2391 and experience to back you up....!! (do you have them????)

 

[Tonkatoy27]

Pass, Another feather to your cap if it all goes ---- up and someone gets hurt by an installation you've tested I suppose.

 

[Tonkatoy27]

Agreed, it's stupid money and I don't feel the need to get ELECSA approved for EICR's (or 2391). A good working knowledge of the regs, lots of experience and a lot of common sense should suffice.

 

[chrisday3000]

Ok another question lads,

On the EICR Certs on this link, http://www.elecsa.co.uk/Documents/P...1-Amd1-Installation-Condition-Report-(1).aspx

On Section G the declaration, obviously the inspected and tested by would be yourself, but what about the bit next to it - Report authorised for issue by?

 

[malcolmsanford]

In your case....................... you or if you create a limited company the name of your company

 

[chrisday3000]

So as a sole trader, you would put yourself twice?

 

[malcolmsanford]

yes....................

 

[Octopus]

There are people about who have passed the 2391 with little or no practical experience of electrical installations - so I'd argue that having the 2391 isn't the only requirement for being competent.

 

[SirKit Breaker]

The upshot of all this is.

It doensn't matter what you are inspecting, testing, designing, constructing, installing, in the Electrical world.
The simple fact of it all, is you DO NOT need any sort of qualification to be an Electrician, you DO NOT have to join any scheme. You DO however, need to prove competence, and work safely. I don't agree with all this, but it is the facts.

Don't believe me? then read through the EAW regs, there is no mention of qualifications, just "must be competent". It is the same in the BGB, competent person, skilled person and so on, its in definitions, and again, nowhere does it mention qualifications.


Cheers............Howard

 

[trev]

There are people about who have passed the 2391 with little or no practical experience of electrical installations - so I'd argue that having the 2391 isn't the only requirement for being competent.

According to C&G info, to be eligible to take the 2391 course and exam you have to be a practicing electrician and actively involved in I&T. So it's not C&G at fault here it's the colleges who will let anyone on the course as long as they can pay the fee. For example, when I did it the second time there was a taxi driver on it who had been told all he needed was 2391 and he would be a spark. Surprisingly enough because of a lack of the basic knowledge he failed.
Taxi driver 0 College £300.
Jobs a goodun????

 

[SirKit Breaker]

According to C&G info, to be eligible to take the 2391 course and exam you have to be a practicing electrician and actively involved in I&T. So it's not C&G at fault here it's the colleges who will let anyone on the course as long as they can pay the fee. For example, when I did it the second time there was a taxi driver on it who had been told all he needed was 2391 and he would be a spark. Surprisingly enough because of a lack of the basic knowledge he failed.
Taxi driver 0 College £300.
Jobs a goodun????

Trev,

You are not wrong, but that is just guidance. The minimum requirements to undertake 2391,2394, 2395 and 2396 is that you are 18 years or older.

Cheers.........Howard

 

[trev]

Ok Howard I stand corrected but, as a college lecturer would you be happy taking a lesson full of lads who couldn't even change a plug top?
I know it's not down to you who gets admitted but I think that the guidance from C&G should sometimes be an instruction

 

[SirKit Breaker]

Ok Howard I stand corrected but, as a college lecturer would you be happy taking a lesson full of lads who couldn't even change a plug top?
I know it's not down to you who gets admitted but I think that the guidance from C&G should sometimes be an instruction

Trev,

You are not corrected, you were right in the first place, that is their advice, All i was adding, was that the basic minimum requirement for C&G was a minimum age of 18, so if you are 18 you can do the course. And no i wouldnt let anyone on my courses without experience, it is hard work enough with very experienced people, let alone those with no knowledge. I vet all applicants anyway.

Cheers.........Howard

 

[brucelee]

and most providers prefer you to have the 17th but dont think thats set in stone just think its because of the correct terminolgy is needed etc

 

[trev]

Trev,

You are not corrected, you were right in the first place, that is their advice, All i was adding, was that the basic minimum requirement for C&G was a minimum age of 18, so if you are 18 you can do the course. And no i wouldnt let anyone on my courses without experience, it is hard work enough with very experienced people, let alone those with no knowledge. I vet all applicants anyway.

Cheers.........Howard

Newcastle college actually have an entrance exam for their 2391 course, what a fantastic idea. Gets rid of chance your arm dafties who have no chance of passing and makes lecturers and students lives easier in the long run