Pat testers

[wattsup]

What can a stand alone pat tester do, more than a meggar(or equivilent manufacturer), apart from print flash labels, make life easier quicker etc?

 

[zupos40]

What can a stand alone pat tester do, more than a meggar(or equivilent manufacturer), apart from print flash labels, make life easier quicker etc?

Measure touch current (alternative to insulation testing electronic equipment) and leakage current (very useful when equipment is installed on RCD protected circuits) I have on many occassion been able to prove the reason for the RCD tripping is because of the total leakage current flowing in circuit when all the equipment is plugged in and switched on.

PAT testers allow you to pass A.C current through the Earth at 0.5A (electronic equipment Functional earthing) 8A or 25A. Megger only tests at 200mA 24V d.c.

If you are testing your own tools etc then megger or equivalent will do fine.

Personnelly if you wishing to PAT as a business then buy a dedicated PAT tester.

 

[wattsup]

Thanks Zupos
So its fine to use a megger on a 415v lathe/grinder fixed.
But a £4.50 tesco 13a kettle needs a further enhanced pat tester.

Is it not the case, you need not be qualified to use a pat tester (anyone can test, suitably trained accepted, but not qualified) The uninformed would not know how to use a meggar, yet a pat tester is idiot proof (assumming you can read)
It is not a legal requirement to pat test.
The pat tester was invented for diy sparks all in my humble opinion, of course

 

[zupos40]

Thanks Zupos
So its fine to use a megger on a 415v lathe/grinder fixed.
But a £4.50 tesco 13a kettle needs a further enhanced pat tester.

Is it not the case, you need not be qualified to use a pat tester (anyone can test, suitably trained accepted, but not qualified) The uninformed would not know how to use a meggar, yet a pat tester is idiot proof (assumming you can read)
It is not a legal requirement to pat test.
The pat tester was invented for diy sparks all in my humble opinion, of course

The Portable Appliance Tester (PAT) came about as a result of the introduction of the electricity at work Regulation 1989 regulation 4.2 which now required all electrical installation and equipment to be maintained.


Yes it is a legal requirement to ensure all circuit equipment is safe for use, whether it be EAW or puwer or management of H&S, most companies it highlighted as part of their risk assessment the equipment is inspected and if required tested, that even applies to you and your electrical equipment, if you drill became faulty and you had an accident, the first question the HSE would ask is what maintaince did you perform to insure it was not dangerous to use, have you insurance read the small print.

You could test a 4.50 kettle using a megger, use the PAT was designed to be used by anyone, but I bet you could train some to use a megger to PAT, I been working for 30 year as an electrician and meet sufficient sparks who had little or no clue how to use electrical test equipment, continuity, insulation, earth loop etc.

I have now sparks to blow up fire alarm panels, damage other electronic equipment, TV, dimmer, Laptop, Computers.

Personnelly PAT or Electrical, the testing part is only a small part of the process 15%, inspection, knowing the regulation, safety checks, how equipment work, suitablitiy etc are more important, plugging in a kettle into a PAT or using a megger in the last thing.

 

[wattsup]

Hi Zupos, I have you beat cos I've been working as a spark for 35 years, 6 year apprentice trained..but anyhow thats by-the-by. I'm dismayed by the recent bull**** re part p, testing etc. I'm all for good and safe work practice, but over the last 10 years or so this government have in fact made matters worst.
Back to the original q, what can a pat tester do that a meggar can't.
As I said, it is not a legal requirement to pat test, although I accept it is advisable for any business to do so.

If any spark uses a meggar on 240v/500v/1000v to test sensative electronics (fire alarm panel/ cctv / flow electronics / computers etc etc. Then the 'spark' is not experienced

So then how can a none qualified be expected to use pat testers?...yet it is acceptable, cos the pat tester is idiot proof. Hence companies investing in well over the top prices for not needed test equipment, just get a spark who can use a meggar?

 

[zupos40]

Hi Zupos, I have you beat cos I've been working as a spark for 35 years, 6 year apprentice trained..but anyhow thats by-the-by. I'm dismayed by the recent bull**** re part p, testing etc. I'm all for good and safe work practice, but over the last 10 years or so this government have in fact made matters worst.
Back to the original q, what can a pat tester do that a meggar can't.
As I said, it is not a legal requirement to pat test, although I accept it is advisable for any business to do so.

You must have been to installation were the electrics are a nightmare, and the person how installed them should be hung drawn and quartered, I know for fact the the trading standard pre Part P had 2000 compliants per year for electrical work installed by kitchen fitters, bathroom installer, the same with the poor daughter of the MP who got elecocuted, who installed the electrics builders.

I would prefer all electrician to be licienced, and all work notified and any client who use non licienced electrician be heavy fined.

Like you I am apprentice trained, yes it getting harder to keep up with all the changes, looking at changing career path.

 

[Spudnik]

I dont think there is any LEGAL requirement to be qualified to do ANY form of electrical testing.

However, you must be able to prove yourself competent, which qualifications supposedly do.

 

[wattsup]

I don't think it would be feasable to train in using a meggar, because down the line someone would get a 1000v belt, they would not be suitably trained. I can see it now in bright lights to the chairman of the litigation panel ...'I was traumatised the 1000v made it impossible for me to get an erection anymore, I can't watch football on tv, cos of anxiety my hair might stand on end, my girlfriend has left me, I won't go outside if raining...blah blah

Awarded 10 trillion, your company ought have sent you on training to be an electrician to use a meggar..hence invent a pat tester -

The mp's 'mother' was electricuted by poor work done by a an immigrant worker not familiar with the colour code in this country. This in turn led to the ridiculous crusade this mp went on, where we in turn had to alter colour codes.
The single phase stuff was not so bothersome (for experienced sparks)
However it has caused many problems on 3-phase stuff, there have been many accidents and some fatalities, which are hushed up. Mainly concerning the blue phase, now a neutral. Experienced sparks even now are still connecting wrong. It is habbit. Blue is a phase or was for many many years, now it is not...it was asking for trouble, now there are thousands of factories/firms all over the uk using a combination of phase colours.

Accidents waiting to happen.

The union did not aggree with the changeover, pointing out the above (which everyone in the industry knew would happen, the government chose to ignore)

The old system worked fine, if you made a bad job you would be liable in court.
If you could not provide proof of being an electrician then the court would no doubt respond accordingly.

Under the new system, you can still do a bad job but provide a doccument to say it was safe at the time, a worthless piece of paper.
Fraudulent papers are rife, very similar to the 'bent test' mot certificate

Added, most people will not use a spark who says, 'sorry madam I can't put another socket in your kitchen, unless you pay 300 quid for a new cu + testing..blah blah. What they gonna do, go to the diy man in the pub..making it worst not better.
It's bloody crazy

 

[zupos40]

The mp's 'mother' was electricuted by poor work done by a an immigrant worker not familiar with the colour code in this country. This in turn led to the ridiculous crusade this mp went on, where we in turn had to alter colour codes.

Wattup, I read a report that stated the death was due to the installed cable being run diagonally allong the way, instead of with in 150mm zone vertically or horizontally I will look it up for you an if i find it post it on this site.

The colour changes to conductor was as a result of complying with CELNEC or similar organisation to ensure harmonisation throughout Europe.

I dont think there is any LEGAL requirement to be qualified to do ANY form of electrical testing.

However, you must be able to prove yourself competent, which qualifications supposedly do.

With reference EaW 1989 surely the regulations require for there to be an responsible person / duty holder (they have legal status) and as you said a responsible person/ duty holder must prove that they are competent to perform those tasks by technical knowledge, qualifications and practical experience etc.

 

[wattsup]

If we are talking about the same thing, it was in fact a kettle (the kettle was faulty) elecricuted but not killed. The spark made red neutral, black line, he accepted liability he said black is a line conductor in 'all countries'. It turned out he was not qualified in his own country never mind here.

It was an unfortunate turn of events, yet the mp succumbed to the diy sparks excuse, indeed black is a line conductor in most countries, but not here or china, australia, singapore, india, west indies...in fact plenty of places.

But hey an mp knows best!

besides, vertical, horizontal ran in circles...whats that got to do with colour changes. In most countries cable is installed the shortest route, that will be the next excuse...part p and colour changes do not stop cowboys, it makes things worst, thats all I argue.

 

[zupos40]

Wattsup the death I am talking about occured in 2004 she link

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3735928.stm

 

[Spudnik]

It was indeed, the unfortunate death of an MP's daughter.

A metal cutlery rack was fitted to the kitchen wall, and was promptly made live by the fixing screw through an out of zone cable.

Part P has always been coming but, because of the above, was not properly thought out at the time hence the issues we all have now with it.